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Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way. Joel Send a noteboard - 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM
Here is a study that shows significantly different spatial skills already appearing in infants. It doesn’t offer an explanation for why there is a difference but offers evidence that is hard to argue with short expanding the sampling size to rule out errors.

We shouldn't ignore evidence just because we don't like the implications. We also shouldn’t over read it, I wouldn’t discourage my daughter from being an engineer.

Which is a shame, 'cos I'd like to see the study, but it's also easily fixed. :) Expanding samples to reduce error is always a good idea, which is one of the benefits of multiple studies, but beyond a certain point you get marginal returns. *resists the urge to discuss FL exit polling in 2000 and 2004* :P

1) We have a study that indicates infant boys, as a whole, tend to have better spatial reasoning than infant girls, while noting that doesn't preclude individual girls performing as well, just that it's more common in boys,

2) Overall, math achievement is roughly equal, because spatial reasoning is just one aspect of math ability,

3) "If girls think they don’t do well in a subject, they have a diminished interest in it". I'd say that applies to all students; people who expect to fail usually find a way to make it happen, regardless of their sex, and probably the number of boys who suck at cooking is similar to the number of girls who suck at math because of social sexual norms, but most importantly,

4) None of the preconditioning involved in that, either biological or social, is set in stone, and at the end of the day the success of any one child in any one area will have more to do with individual ability as well as the ability of educators and parents to stimulate interest and encourage performance than it has to do with either the subject or the students sex.

There appears to be a sex advantage IN ONE AREA, overall achievement is roughly equal, at least to a point, but girls tend to have less interest in math because they're expected to perform more poorly; nevertheless, most developmentally normal children can succeed in any field if what native ability they have is stimulated and encouraged. Perhaps that's the biggest factor in what IS "developmentally normal".

Thanks for the link, it was quite interesting.
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Looks like the feminist movement wasn't as successful as it appears - 11/01/2011 06:21:01 PM 2398 Views
I think you're extrapolating a bit too much - 11/01/2011 06:45:38 PM 1471 Views
I don't trust the figures. - 11/01/2011 06:50:24 PM 1466 Views
While I don't 100% agree with the article, some feminists annoy me no end. - 11/01/2011 06:47:03 PM 1529 Views
My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career - 11/01/2011 06:52:11 PM 1472 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career - 12/01/2011 01:36:14 AM 1471 Views
Yeah, got one like that, too. - 12/01/2011 02:17:17 AM 1469 Views
yeah prett much anything gross that isn't in a diaper is my job - 12/01/2011 05:12:11 AM 1408 Views
It's not just that choice though. - 11/01/2011 07:12:48 PM 1541 Views
It feels more hypocritical coming from feminists than "traditionalists". *NM* - 11/01/2011 07:17:24 PM 804 Views
For you maybe. - 11/01/2011 07:27:52 PM 1459 Views
there is definitely some SAHM snobbery - 11/01/2011 08:43:21 PM 1459 Views
Well. - 11/01/2011 09:34:42 PM 1487 Views
I agree. I would also like to add, if I may... - 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM 1472 Views
all 25 of them? - 12/01/2011 05:14:56 AM 1423 Views
Pffft, look it up a bit. You might find info on the national propaganda radio (NPR) site. - 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM 1483 Views
It's a difficult dynamic even under the best of circumstances, when both partners have chosen it. - 12/01/2011 02:25:20 PM 1325 Views
I agree, it's very difficult. - 12/01/2011 03:14:59 PM 1370 Views
it is nuanced - 12/01/2011 03:06:39 PM 1401 Views
Re: it is nuanced - 12/01/2011 04:58:36 PM 1390 Views
You are spot on. As usual. About everything. *NM* - 12/01/2011 01:42:18 AM 850 Views
- 12/01/2011 02:25:59 PM 1373 Views
I have to admit that this bothers me. - 11/01/2011 07:33:09 PM 1516 Views
I don't expect people to understand my choice necessarily. - 11/01/2011 09:36:52 PM 1490 Views
In addition... - 12/01/2011 05:39:25 PM 1360 Views
I guess you think the same of me then. - 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM 1339 Views
Another one? - 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM 1380 Views
Re: Another one? - 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM 1399 Views
~never mind~ *NM* *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:42:47 PM 908 Views
I'm going to answer you anyway. - 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM 1472 Views
not to mention - 12/01/2011 05:11:42 PM 1431 Views
In addition - 12/01/2011 05:23:25 PM 1357 Views
you don't want kids? - 12/01/2011 05:46:25 PM 1369 Views
bleck - 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM 1383 Views
again not the vibe I get from you - 12/01/2011 11:38:26 PM 1346 Views
Hehe. - 13/01/2011 12:15:06 AM 1400 Views
Not selfish. - 13/01/2011 02:45:43 AM 1395 Views
You don't have to be a doctor to contribute to the world - 12/01/2011 05:27:26 PM 1430 Views
Poor Aeryn - 12/01/2011 05:29:47 PM 1358 Views
I replied before she edited - 12/01/2011 05:41:53 PM 1308 Views
Am I at least absolved from having to respond? - 15/01/2011 06:11:27 AM 1426 Views
Certainly. *NM* - 15/01/2011 09:40:09 AM 846 Views
The primary issue... - 12/01/2011 05:52:42 PM 1352 Views
*NM* - 12/01/2011 05:54:29 PM 774 Views
What Rebekah said... - 15/01/2011 07:55:34 PM 1363 Views
Me too! - 11/01/2011 09:43:57 PM 1428 Views
Re: Me too! - 12/01/2011 01:23:39 AM 1443 Views
I have a fiancee like that. - 12/01/2011 02:14:53 AM 1360 Views
I feel so fortunate to be a stay at home mom. - 12/01/2011 11:32:37 PM 1344 Views
My commentary on the whys and wherefores of this stuff would be way too politically incorrect - 11/01/2011 07:56:24 PM 1517 Views
I think all of that makes sense - 11/01/2011 08:36:39 PM 1396 Views
In this particular case I don't disagree with you. - 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM 1329 Views
I'm not sure why either sex should surpass the other in math. - 12/01/2011 02:34:09 AM 1307 Views
men have more physical strength period - 12/01/2011 05:30:14 AM 1353 Views
There's a lot more to running (especially marathons) then leg strength. - 12/01/2011 05:41:11 AM 1369 Views
When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 03:47:53 PM 1388 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 04:32:38 PM 1278 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 04:41:42 PM 1373 Views
Both, really; the latter is a consequence of the former. - 12/01/2011 05:21:28 PM 1285 Views
I'm trying to understand your position - 12/01/2011 05:28:43 PM 1359 Views
try string theory, it makes more sense than Joel logic - 12/01/2011 05:57:27 PM 1255 Views
Now you've got it. - 12/01/2011 06:40:50 PM 1435 Views
Okay, that's fair. *NM* - 12/01/2011 06:42:30 PM 742 Views
Glad we were able to reach an understanding. - 13/01/2011 10:02:47 PM 1314 Views
Re: I'm trying to understand your position - 13/01/2011 08:12:05 PM 1361 Views
we know the brain of women works differently then the brains of men - 12/01/2011 05:40:15 PM 1387 Views
What evidence I'm aware of seems inconclusive. - 12/01/2011 06:46:50 PM 1215 Views
here is some evdience to argue that it is not society but biology - 13/01/2011 08:43:43 PM 1383 Views
I think you did like I always do and forgot to give us a way to click your link. - 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM 1394 Views
oops - 13/01/2011 10:07:55 PM 1388 Views
Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way. - 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM 1289 Views
You can use anything to prove what you want if you are willing to spin it hard enough - 14/01/2011 02:57:29 PM 1562 Views
I used YOUR article to "prove" what it says outright. - 15/01/2011 05:35:27 PM 1475 Views
I would also like to say this: - 11/01/2011 09:33:23 PM 1362 Views
Of course - 12/01/2011 01:47:14 AM 1404 Views
Re: Of course - 12/01/2011 04:57:11 PM 1370 Views
"Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. - 12/01/2011 07:58:12 PM 1403 Views
Re: "Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. - 12/01/2011 08:15:59 PM 1385 Views
It's true for Arabic and hence, one suspects, Hebrew. - 13/01/2011 07:43:21 PM 1292 Views
I'm glad YOU think it's fun... - 13/01/2011 10:05:07 PM 1351 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: - 12/01/2011 09:15:28 AM 1399 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: - 12/01/2011 12:27:14 PM 1383 Views
No - 12/01/2011 12:28:48 PM 1270 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:35:56 PM 1248 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:37:33 PM 1362 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:43:36 PM 1361 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:47:56 PM 1397 Views
Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 12:54:54 PM 1401 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 12:56:20 PM 1410 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 04:55:50 PM 1321 Views
The two are used as different psychological concepts. - 12/01/2011 02:24:58 PM 1337 Views
Again, used incorrectly. - 12/01/2011 03:34:22 PM 1330 Views
Re: Again, used incorrectly. - 12/01/2011 04:00:59 PM 1408 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:53:03 PM 765 Views
It really doesn't surprise me - 12/01/2011 12:36:19 AM 1357 Views
Have you left a memo at the Feminist Movement's Office? - 12/01/2011 12:46:45 AM 1399 Views
Actually, the feminist movement was completely successful. - 12/01/2011 01:42:44 AM 1385 Views
Well put. *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:10:56 AM 748 Views
I was playing a bit but I agree that the feminist in the past accomplished a lot - 12/01/2011 05:34:04 AM 1402 Views
NOW is just a left-leaning PAC. - 12/01/2011 03:16:52 PM 1363 Views
Now if only others were so rational about it. - 17/01/2011 05:55:57 AM 2550 Views
Nevermind, Tom beat me to it. - 12/01/2011 01:54:07 AM 1328 Views
Mmm. I don't think you understand the feminist movement. You have been reading to many things - 12/01/2011 01:56:20 AM 1392 Views
I was refering to groups like NOW - 12/01/2011 05:40:46 AM 1338 Views
Gotcha. - 12/01/2011 11:53:29 PM 1301 Views
I was being a tad bit trollish with my title - 13/01/2011 01:47:30 AM 1293 Views
I'm not sure that follows, at all. - 12/01/2011 02:06:41 AM 1281 Views
they never mention their study methods - 12/01/2011 02:14:15 PM 1366 Views
Gosh, look what you started. - 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM 1377 Views
somebody need to start something it is pretty dead around here *NM* - 12/01/2011 03:16:54 PM 789 Views
Seriously *NM* - 12/01/2011 09:56:56 PM 754 Views
I agree that it would be awesome to hang with my kid every day and not have to work. - 12/01/2011 11:33:25 PM 1413 Views
that part would be great - 12/01/2011 11:40:49 PM 1371 Views
I could do it every day. - 13/01/2011 12:52:56 AM 1304 Views
Me too... - 13/01/2011 02:45:49 PM 1413 Views
So here's the question. Why don't men have a "choice" to opt-out? - 15/01/2011 06:13:28 AM 1365 Views
They do. - 15/01/2011 09:42:29 AM 1304 Views
read further up the thread - 15/01/2011 10:49:08 AM 1425 Views
I really wish that were more socially acceptable. - 15/01/2011 07:58:57 PM 1434 Views
I feel I have that choice. - 16/01/2011 12:08:48 AM 1359 Views
They most certainly do. - 18/01/2011 04:39:09 PM 1465 Views
This sounds awful to me. - 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM 1365 Views
Re: This sounds awful to me. - 14/01/2011 02:47:36 AM 1383 Views
Yikes. - 14/01/2011 11:13:39 PM 1350 Views

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