Active Users:2693 Time:14/09/2026 05:49:07 AM
Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way. Joel Send a noteboard - 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM
Here is a study that shows significantly different spatial skills already appearing in infants. It doesn’t offer an explanation for why there is a difference but offers evidence that is hard to argue with short expanding the sampling size to rule out errors.

We shouldn't ignore evidence just because we don't like the implications. We also shouldn’t over read it, I wouldn’t discourage my daughter from being an engineer.

Which is a shame, 'cos I'd like to see the study, but it's also easily fixed. :) Expanding samples to reduce error is always a good idea, which is one of the benefits of multiple studies, but beyond a certain point you get marginal returns. *resists the urge to discuss FL exit polling in 2000 and 2004* :P

1) We have a study that indicates infant boys, as a whole, tend to have better spatial reasoning than infant girls, while noting that doesn't preclude individual girls performing as well, just that it's more common in boys,

2) Overall, math achievement is roughly equal, because spatial reasoning is just one aspect of math ability,

3) "If girls think they don’t do well in a subject, they have a diminished interest in it". I'd say that applies to all students; people who expect to fail usually find a way to make it happen, regardless of their sex, and probably the number of boys who suck at cooking is similar to the number of girls who suck at math because of social sexual norms, but most importantly,

4) None of the preconditioning involved in that, either biological or social, is set in stone, and at the end of the day the success of any one child in any one area will have more to do with individual ability as well as the ability of educators and parents to stimulate interest and encourage performance than it has to do with either the subject or the students sex.

There appears to be a sex advantage IN ONE AREA, overall achievement is roughly equal, at least to a point, but girls tend to have less interest in math because they're expected to perform more poorly; nevertheless, most developmentally normal children can succeed in any field if what native ability they have is stimulated and encouraged. Perhaps that's the biggest factor in what IS "developmentally normal".

Thanks for the link, it was quite interesting.
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Looks like the feminist movement wasn't as successful as it appears - 11/01/2011 06:21:01 PM 2510 Views
I think you're extrapolating a bit too much - 11/01/2011 06:45:38 PM 1579 Views
I don't trust the figures. - 11/01/2011 06:50:24 PM 1558 Views
While I don't 100% agree with the article, some feminists annoy me no end. - 11/01/2011 06:47:03 PM 1635 Views
My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career - 11/01/2011 06:52:11 PM 1569 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career - 12/01/2011 01:36:14 AM 1569 Views
Yeah, got one like that, too. - 12/01/2011 02:17:17 AM 1563 Views
yeah prett much anything gross that isn't in a diaper is my job - 12/01/2011 05:12:11 AM 1525 Views
It's not just that choice though. - 11/01/2011 07:12:48 PM 1644 Views
It feels more hypocritical coming from feminists than "traditionalists". *NM* - 11/01/2011 07:17:24 PM 859 Views
For you maybe. - 11/01/2011 07:27:52 PM 1562 Views
there is definitely some SAHM snobbery - 11/01/2011 08:43:21 PM 1568 Views
Well. - 11/01/2011 09:34:42 PM 1588 Views
I agree. I would also like to add, if I may... - 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM 1559 Views
all 25 of them? - 12/01/2011 05:14:56 AM 1543 Views
Pffft, look it up a bit. You might find info on the national propaganda radio (NPR) site. - 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM 1589 Views
It's a difficult dynamic even under the best of circumstances, when both partners have chosen it. - 12/01/2011 02:25:20 PM 1438 Views
I agree, it's very difficult. - 12/01/2011 03:14:59 PM 1462 Views
it is nuanced - 12/01/2011 03:06:39 PM 1499 Views
Re: it is nuanced - 12/01/2011 04:58:36 PM 1484 Views
You are spot on. As usual. About everything. *NM* - 12/01/2011 01:42:18 AM 910 Views
- 12/01/2011 02:25:59 PM 1474 Views
I have to admit that this bothers me. - 11/01/2011 07:33:09 PM 1599 Views
I don't expect people to understand my choice necessarily. - 11/01/2011 09:36:52 PM 1595 Views
In addition... - 12/01/2011 05:39:25 PM 1478 Views
I guess you think the same of me then. - 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM 1428 Views
Another one? - 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM 1482 Views
Re: Another one? - 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM 1514 Views
~never mind~ *NM* *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:42:47 PM 985 Views
I'm going to answer you anyway. - 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM 1584 Views
not to mention - 12/01/2011 05:11:42 PM 1522 Views
In addition - 12/01/2011 05:23:25 PM 1478 Views
you don't want kids? - 12/01/2011 05:46:25 PM 1461 Views
bleck - 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM 1471 Views
again not the vibe I get from you - 12/01/2011 11:38:26 PM 1437 Views
Hehe. - 13/01/2011 12:15:06 AM 1507 Views
Not selfish. - 13/01/2011 02:45:43 AM 1480 Views
You don't have to be a doctor to contribute to the world - 12/01/2011 05:27:26 PM 1544 Views
Poor Aeryn - 12/01/2011 05:29:47 PM 1457 Views
I replied before she edited - 12/01/2011 05:41:53 PM 1400 Views
Am I at least absolved from having to respond? - 15/01/2011 06:11:27 AM 1522 Views
Certainly. *NM* - 15/01/2011 09:40:09 AM 903 Views
The primary issue... - 12/01/2011 05:52:42 PM 1453 Views
*NM* - 12/01/2011 05:54:29 PM 835 Views
What Rebekah said... - 15/01/2011 07:55:34 PM 1465 Views
Me too! - 11/01/2011 09:43:57 PM 1518 Views
Re: Me too! - 12/01/2011 01:23:39 AM 1536 Views
I have a fiancee like that. - 12/01/2011 02:14:53 AM 1457 Views
I feel so fortunate to be a stay at home mom. - 12/01/2011 11:32:37 PM 1450 Views
My commentary on the whys and wherefores of this stuff would be way too politically incorrect - 11/01/2011 07:56:24 PM 1615 Views
I think all of that makes sense - 11/01/2011 08:36:39 PM 1503 Views
In this particular case I don't disagree with you. - 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM 1435 Views
I'm not sure why either sex should surpass the other in math. - 12/01/2011 02:34:09 AM 1409 Views
men have more physical strength period - 12/01/2011 05:30:14 AM 1441 Views
There's a lot more to running (especially marathons) then leg strength. - 12/01/2011 05:41:11 AM 1469 Views
When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 03:47:53 PM 1513 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 04:32:38 PM 1378 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 04:41:42 PM 1484 Views
Both, really; the latter is a consequence of the former. - 12/01/2011 05:21:28 PM 1388 Views
I'm trying to understand your position - 12/01/2011 05:28:43 PM 1470 Views
try string theory, it makes more sense than Joel logic - 12/01/2011 05:57:27 PM 1370 Views
Now you've got it. - 12/01/2011 06:40:50 PM 1557 Views
Okay, that's fair. *NM* - 12/01/2011 06:42:30 PM 799 Views
Glad we were able to reach an understanding. - 13/01/2011 10:02:47 PM 1418 Views
Re: I'm trying to understand your position - 13/01/2011 08:12:05 PM 1457 Views
we know the brain of women works differently then the brains of men - 12/01/2011 05:40:15 PM 1485 Views
What evidence I'm aware of seems inconclusive. - 12/01/2011 06:46:50 PM 1302 Views
here is some evdience to argue that it is not society but biology - 13/01/2011 08:43:43 PM 1477 Views
I think you did like I always do and forgot to give us a way to click your link. - 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM 1502 Views
oops - 13/01/2011 10:07:55 PM 1525 Views
Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way. - 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM 1407 Views
You can use anything to prove what you want if you are willing to spin it hard enough - 14/01/2011 02:57:29 PM 1658 Views
I used YOUR article to "prove" what it says outright. - 15/01/2011 05:35:27 PM 1585 Views
I would also like to say this: - 11/01/2011 09:33:23 PM 1466 Views
Of course - 12/01/2011 01:47:14 AM 1511 Views
Re: Of course - 12/01/2011 04:57:11 PM 1476 Views
"Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. - 12/01/2011 07:58:12 PM 1494 Views
Re: "Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. - 12/01/2011 08:15:59 PM 1502 Views
It's true for Arabic and hence, one suspects, Hebrew. - 13/01/2011 07:43:21 PM 1376 Views
I'm glad YOU think it's fun... - 13/01/2011 10:05:07 PM 1443 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: - 12/01/2011 09:15:28 AM 1503 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: - 12/01/2011 12:27:14 PM 1479 Views
No - 12/01/2011 12:28:48 PM 1361 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:35:56 PM 1351 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:37:33 PM 1459 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:43:36 PM 1464 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:47:56 PM 1496 Views
Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 12:54:54 PM 1495 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 12:56:20 PM 1504 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 04:55:50 PM 1433 Views
The two are used as different psychological concepts. - 12/01/2011 02:24:58 PM 1429 Views
Again, used incorrectly. - 12/01/2011 03:34:22 PM 1429 Views
Re: Again, used incorrectly. - 12/01/2011 04:00:59 PM 1502 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:53:03 PM 825 Views
It really doesn't surprise me - 12/01/2011 12:36:19 AM 1460 Views
Have you left a memo at the Feminist Movement's Office? - 12/01/2011 12:46:45 AM 1500 Views
Actually, the feminist movement was completely successful. - 12/01/2011 01:42:44 AM 1504 Views
Well put. *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:10:56 AM 806 Views
I was playing a bit but I agree that the feminist in the past accomplished a lot - 12/01/2011 05:34:04 AM 1496 Views
NOW is just a left-leaning PAC. - 12/01/2011 03:16:52 PM 1488 Views
Now if only others were so rational about it. - 17/01/2011 05:55:57 AM 2654 Views
Nevermind, Tom beat me to it. - 12/01/2011 01:54:07 AM 1423 Views
Mmm. I don't think you understand the feminist movement. You have been reading to many things - 12/01/2011 01:56:20 AM 1491 Views
I was refering to groups like NOW - 12/01/2011 05:40:46 AM 1435 Views
Gotcha. - 12/01/2011 11:53:29 PM 1400 Views
I was being a tad bit trollish with my title - 13/01/2011 01:47:30 AM 1388 Views
I'm not sure that follows, at all. - 12/01/2011 02:06:41 AM 1454 Views
they never mention their study methods - 12/01/2011 02:14:15 PM 1466 Views
Gosh, look what you started. - 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM 1477 Views
somebody need to start something it is pretty dead around here *NM* - 12/01/2011 03:16:54 PM 846 Views
Seriously *NM* - 12/01/2011 09:56:56 PM 811 Views
I agree that it would be awesome to hang with my kid every day and not have to work. - 12/01/2011 11:33:25 PM 1508 Views
that part would be great - 12/01/2011 11:40:49 PM 1465 Views
I could do it every day. - 13/01/2011 12:52:56 AM 1402 Views
Me too... - 13/01/2011 02:45:49 PM 1505 Views
So here's the question. Why don't men have a "choice" to opt-out? - 15/01/2011 06:13:28 AM 1469 Views
They do. - 15/01/2011 09:42:29 AM 1407 Views
read further up the thread - 15/01/2011 10:49:08 AM 1528 Views
I really wish that were more socially acceptable. - 15/01/2011 07:58:57 PM 1531 Views
I feel I have that choice. - 16/01/2011 12:08:48 AM 1450 Views
They most certainly do. - 18/01/2011 04:39:09 PM 1570 Views
This sounds awful to me. - 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM 1462 Views
Re: This sounds awful to me. - 14/01/2011 02:47:36 AM 1461 Views
Yikes. - 14/01/2011 11:13:39 PM 1441 Views

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