I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
Joel Send a noteboard - 29/04/2011 01:52:49 AM
Below I've linked to a blog post in which Sean Carroll, a theoretical astrophysicist, describes the significance of the Bullet Cluster result. In brief: we can compare the x-rays generated by the ordinary matter to the gravitation fields reconstructed by lensing measurements. These do not match up, indicating very strongly the presence of dark matter. If dark matter were "ordinary" matter, it would have collided just like the rest of the matter in the galaxies, so we wouldn't see the gravitational field that we do. This indicates that dark matter is a different kind of matter.
Dark matter is a hypothesis that already has a significant amount of supporting evidence. There are over a dozen experiments currently running or being constructed in order to detect dark matter, so the idea that the concept is not being tested is false. There are also people who do serious work on finding alternative theories that explain the anomalies without dark matter, although most of the popular options have run into problems.
The moral of this post: don't confuse the popular presentation of science with what's actually happening in the field. These problems are very complex and there's a lot of work being done in various directions. The news media almost never come up with anything close to an accurate, thorough, or up-to-date summary, so don't rely on them for a clear picture.
I'm reminded of the discussion with Isaac a while back about whether Jupiter even qualifies as a brown dwarf since it isn't fuzing hydrogen, and how much smaller it is than most extra-solar planets found to date (which I suppose still qualify as dark matter in cases only detectable as gravitational wobbles in a stars rotation). The comic's a good summary of the conventional wisdom, I'm just not sold on the underlying theory, and the reference to particle physicists is illustrative of why. Call me old fashioned, but I remain dubious when science contrives unverifiable aberrations to explain why some data doesn't fit the curve. For all the talk of radical new models, most of this strikes me as a bandaid obviating the need for new theories when something unaccounted for by the old one surfaces. There are simpler bandaids to be had but, regardless, the same rule applies to cosmology that applies to particle physics: Anything you can't test isn't physics, it's metaphysics. It may be valid metaphysics, but the one thing it's not is science.
Dark matter is a hypothesis that already has a significant amount of supporting evidence. There are over a dozen experiments currently running or being constructed in order to detect dark matter, so the idea that the concept is not being tested is false. There are also people who do serious work on finding alternative theories that explain the anomalies without dark matter, although most of the popular options have run into problems.
The moral of this post: don't confuse the popular presentation of science with what's actually happening in the field. These problems are very complex and there's a lot of work being done in various directions. The news media almost never come up with anything close to an accurate, thorough, or up-to-date summary, so don't rely on them for a clear picture.
I just don't think it's the airtight proof of dark matter Dr. Carroll considers it, because I don't think dark matter's the only, or necessarily the simplest, possible explanation.
I don't see a reason to think the normal matter emitting the X-rays didn't collide with the galaxy through which it passed. It seems likely to be the highest energy (hence it emits X-rays instead of visible light) so it should logically penetrate farther than the other matter native to its cluster, particularly if it's also the central and therefore densest part of that cluster, which appears to be the case (unless of course dark matter is present, in which case that part is the densest).
As for the lensing itself, that we're dealing with entire clusters means we're dealing with very large and very distant objects so it seems entirely possible that other intervening but non-visible normal matter may be conributing to the lensing in some but not all areas, which could both account for the apparent effect as measured (if an intervening source of gravity is acting on all the light) and/or distort the image (if the clusters and their surroundings are too large for all their light to be affected by the intervening gravity source(s)).
The root of my problem is the first two sentences of Dr. Carrolls article:
The great accomplishment of late-twentieth-century cosmology was putting together a complete inventory of the universe. We can tell a story that fits all the known data, in which ordinary matter (every particle ever detected in any experiment) constitutes only about 5% of the energy of the universe, with 25% being dark matter and 70% being dark energy.
That would be a phenomenal accomplishment if proven true, but I'm concerned the potential phenomenon has made us to eager to accept inconclusive proof, in which case it is just "telling a story". Finding direct experimental evidence of dark matter would be awesome, but sounds rather challenging since it's only affected by gravity.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Exciting video about the universe
28/04/2011 10:14:55 AM
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I still think dark matter's just non-luminous matter without a convenient light source to reflect.
28/04/2011 10:34:21 PM
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We've just about ruled out the idea that dark matter is just non-luminous "ordinary" matter.
28/04/2011 11:44:34 PM
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I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
29/04/2011 01:52:49 AM
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Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
29/04/2011 02:56:32 AM
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Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
30/04/2011 05:02:49 PM
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Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
30/04/2011 08:56:35 PM
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Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
02/05/2011 01:28:30 AM
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Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
04/05/2011 04:18:18 AM
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There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
07/05/2011 02:04:53 AM
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Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
09/05/2011 11:28:48 PM
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Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
14/05/2011 05:36:45 AM
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Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
17/05/2011 02:09:40 AM
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Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
19/05/2011 04:55:21 AM
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Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
24/05/2011 09:32:27 PM
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The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind.
24/05/2011 10:34:04 PM
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Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind.
24/05/2011 11:08:01 PM
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Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind.
25/05/2011 01:27:10 AM
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Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind.
31/05/2011 09:16:18 AM
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Apologies for the delay; internet's been spotty and I've been busy lately.
10/06/2011 12:09:04 AM
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Re: Apologies for the delay; internet's been spotty and I've been busy lately.
14/06/2011 03:38:18 AM
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Also, re: lensing from ordinary matter:
29/04/2011 05:18:47 AM
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This seems like another example of what confuses the issue.
30/04/2011 05:25:04 PM
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Re: This seems like another example of what confuses the issue.
30/04/2011 08:56:40 PM
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That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
02/05/2011 01:29:03 AM
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Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
04/05/2011 04:18:24 AM
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Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
07/05/2011 02:05:02 AM
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Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
09/05/2011 11:29:36 PM
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Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
14/05/2011 05:35:56 AM
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Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
17/05/2011 02:09:55 AM
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Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
19/05/2011 02:47:25 AM
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Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
24/05/2011 09:46:30 PM
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Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
25/05/2011 12:20:10 AM
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Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
31/05/2011 09:16:22 AM
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Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
10/06/2011 12:04:06 AM
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Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
14/06/2011 03:38:12 AM
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Re: I still think... (apparently, there is a 100 character limit on subjects, and yours was 99)
28/04/2011 11:57:15 PM
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Seems to happen to me a lot; sorry.
29/04/2011 12:56:14 AM
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None of this reflects on the actual facts of dark matter.
29/04/2011 01:32:52 AM
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I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes.
30/04/2011 04:30:28 PM
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Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes.
30/04/2011 08:56:44 PM
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Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes.
02/05/2011 01:28:58 AM
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Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes.
04/05/2011 04:18:27 AM
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I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
07/05/2011 02:05:09 AM
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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
09/05/2011 11:32:17 PM
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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
14/05/2011 05:36:24 AM
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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
17/05/2011 02:10:03 AM
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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
19/05/2011 04:33:06 AM
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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
24/05/2011 09:59:38 PM
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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
24/05/2011 11:19:43 PM
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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
24/05/2011 11:33:58 PM
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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
25/05/2011 12:55:36 AM
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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
31/05/2011 09:16:24 AM
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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
10/06/2011 12:09:13 AM
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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
14/06/2011 03:38:05 AM
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Might help if you clarified where your skepticism is at
29/04/2011 02:32:07 AM
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Potentially either, or a combination of the two.
30/04/2011 02:36:50 PM
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It's hard to discuss without knowing your objections a bit more clearly
30/04/2011 04:58:03 PM
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My primary objection is that alternatives to dark matter seem to have been ruled out prematurely.
02/05/2011 01:29:14 AM
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