You're excoriating Joel for asking a very valid question. There is a clear and explicit disconnect between the way you are practicing Christianity and the way that it has been understood for some two odd millennia. If you're willing to say that you're Gnostics, Arians or Cathars, or that you're a new branch of Christianity based on a different revelation then I can accept that as your choice. However, you claim to be Pauline Christians following the text of the Bible. There is explicit language against all of these acts in the Bible. I haven't seen a satisfactory explanation from the Presbyterian Church (which has admittedly never been strong on theology) as to how these ideas are reconciled.
If you want to pillory Joel and be thankful he's not a Presbyterian, that's fine. Everyone around here has pilloried him at one time or another. However, don't think for an instant that this somehow means that the points he's raising aren't valid, or that you don't have to address them just because it makes you uncomfortable.
If you want to pillory Joel and be thankful he's not a Presbyterian, that's fine. Everyone around here has pilloried him at one time or another. However, don't think for an instant that this somehow means that the points he's raising aren't valid, or that you don't have to address them just because it makes you uncomfortable.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A.
- 11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM
1590 Views
*NM*
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification?
- 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM
1150 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests.
- 12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM
1128 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood?
- 12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM
989 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much.
- 12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM
935 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned
- 12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM
971 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route.
- 14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM
915 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible.
- 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM
994 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means.
- 14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM
1157 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy.
- 14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM
992 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though).
- 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM
1046 Views
There's ample precedent for female religious leaders, even within the bible.
- 12/05/2011 06:51:05 AM
1092 Views
Since when is Moses' society the be-all end all?
- 12/05/2011 07:12:41 PM
952 Views
Since never, which is why I referenced five other eras you completely ignored.
- 14/05/2011 01:11:30 AM
1055 Views
They did so, via negativa.
- 12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM
1130 Views
Sorry for the delay, particularly since it looks like I'll be spending a fair amount of time here.
- 14/05/2011 12:31:33 AM
929 Views
Your church has a constitution?!
- 12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM
983 Views
My Church has a congress! 
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM
474 Views
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM
474 Views
Haha no way! *NM*
- 12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM
434 Views
Well, we have one group of laity and one of bishops, so it is only mildy utter chaos. 
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM
474 Views
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM
474 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible.
- 12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM
1163 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape.
- 12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM
980 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit.
- 12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM
1117 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis
- 12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM
1031 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any.
- 12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM
998 Views
There are cases in which hypocrisy is far better than the alternatives.
- 12/05/2011 10:04:32 PM
1087 Views
Hypocrisy is better than, say, setting gays on fire, yes.
- 12/05/2011 10:10:40 PM
1056 Views
My statement is that, from a pragmatic point of view, hypocrisy shouldn't be discouraged too much.
- 13/05/2011 10:05:39 PM
1079 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then?
- 13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM
1015 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part.
- 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM
915 Views
The Bible says what it says. The problem... people like to tell us just what else it's saying.
- 13/05/2011 05:31:29 PM
971 Views
You don't reconcile... you pick the parts you like and adjust the rest to suit you.
- 13/05/2011 09:33:54 PM
890 Views
Another example...
- 12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM
894 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct.
- 12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM
895 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats.
- 12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM
950 Views
We both know that isn't the case
- 12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM
1060 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
- 12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM
1014 Views
No Protestant denomination has added so much as a word to the Bible
- 12/05/2011 05:58:16 PM
921 Views
So, everyone hates Judith, then?
- 12/05/2011 06:40:11 PM
991 Views
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept Judith as part of Scripture.
- 12/05/2011 07:51:27 PM
918 Views
Does the Eastern Orthodox Church also segregate deuterocanonical works like Roman Catholicism does?
- 14/05/2011 02:19:03 AM
1243 Views
The Eastern Church bases everything on the Septuagint.
- 14/05/2011 02:34:41 AM
971 Views
That sounds appealing, and makes sense.
- 14/05/2011 02:44:56 AM
985 Views
Oh, I just enjoy calling Protestants "heretics" to remind them not everyone agrees with them.
- 14/05/2011 03:25:42 AM
924 Views
Re: Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
- 12/05/2011 08:52:48 PM
966 Views
The NIV is terrible. The NASB has the best translation I have found (of the NT, at least).
- 12/05/2011 10:43:58 PM
1105 Views
I find this really weird, to be honest
- 13/05/2011 05:48:28 AM
999 Views
Well, it wasn't just Athanasius. But yes, we are lucky in that respect. *NM*
- 13/05/2011 06:32:48 AM
404 Views
Athanasius's list reflected the victory of Pauline Christianity
- 13/05/2011 02:52:53 PM
937 Views
There's a school of thought that says that's a strong vindication of Athanasius. 
- 14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM
874 Views
- 14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM
874 Views