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You make a very important but too often overlooked point. Joel Send a noteboard - 14/05/2011 01:54:40 AM
Which I guess makes it no surprise it's overlooked here.
So what? You seem to have a very poor understanding of the nature of faith and salvation if that's your attitude. The forgiveness of sins by Christ is founded on the penitence of the sinner. Jesus said to the adulteress, "Go, and sin no more", not "Go, and keep doing what you've been doing". While every human is a sinner in Christian doctrine, there is a difference between sinning and asking for forgiveness, and trying not to sin again, and being comfortable with sin and professing it to not be a sin. That is pretty much the standard definition of an unrepentant sinner no matter what denomination you belong to. If the priest is a homosexual who tries to refrain from acting on his urges, then he's no different than the priest who struggles with any other sin. It's when he claims that what he's doing is okay that he has crossed a line, and a very clear one at that.

That's the core of it, yet alarmingly easy to miss. It cuts both ways of course; some very strict denominations practically deny the possibility of repentance when church members sin, so people only have to screw up once to be permanently ostracized whatever they do subsequently. Yet on the other end of the spectrum are churches that seem to feel something as trivial as unrepentant sin shouldn't be a barrier to fellowship with God (which is totally the churchs call, right? ;)) My experience has been that both phenomena are most prevalent with BAC churches, where the Sinners Prayer, an alter call, dunking or whatever rite of passage they endorse somehow makes people immune to sin, and any subsequent sins are either treated as proof the young Christian was insincere or unclean, or dismissed because they can't have sinned; they're CHRISTIANS. Of course, this overlooks another scriptural point on which Paul is explicit in multiple places; had he the luxury of putting his life on autopilot once he accepted Christ he wouldn't have spoken of "finishing the race" or "perfection in Christ" as a process rather than an instantaneous event.

*returns from tangent* :P
The point is, if someone objects to a basic and enduring Church statement that a given act is sinful, but nonetheless commits it and means to continue, the solution is not conforming the Church to their wishes, but a religion (if any) that condones them. Just because a Christian desires something that the Church condemns doesn't mean the Holy Spirit is conveniently telling them the Church is wrong and their desire right; as you correctly note, that's the nature of a Christians struggle against sin, one the Church teaches is impossible for anyone to win apart from Christ. I realize there's a popular view that Christianity is "slavery to Christ", but within the Church I thought it well established that slavery to sin is NOT Christianity. It's one thing to err, repent, be forgiven in Grace and try to be righteous henceforth, and quite another to revel in error while calling it Gods will.
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Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A. - 11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM 1566 Views
*NM* - 11/05/2011 06:10:26 PM 395 Views
I am happy to see this. *NM* - 11/05/2011 07:22:59 PM 422 Views
Homosexuals must die! - 11/05/2011 08:25:25 PM 1225 Views
I agree! This sort of behavior can NOT be excused!!! - 11/05/2011 10:38:16 PM 883 Views
Yay!!. - 11/05/2011 10:38:51 PM 1159 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* - 11/05/2011 10:46:39 PM 474 Views
Well done. *NM* - 11/05/2011 11:07:22 PM 425 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification? - 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM 1137 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests. - 12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM 1110 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood? - 12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM 973 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much. - 12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM 921 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned - 12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM 956 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route. - 14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM 899 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible. - 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM 981 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means. - 14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM 1141 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy. - 14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM 969 Views
Wow. - 20/05/2011 10:15:21 AM 998 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though). - 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM 1026 Views
It's more a question of interpretational standards. - 12/05/2011 02:29:43 PM 912 Views
Agreed. - 14/05/2011 01:17:45 AM 993 Views
They did so, via negativa. - 12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM 1115 Views
Your church has a constitution?! - 12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM 967 Views
My Church has a congress! *NM* - 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM 464 Views
Haha no way! *NM* - 12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM 423 Views
We have a General Assembly and a Moderator. - 12/05/2011 04:18:34 PM 1079 Views
I had no idea the US was based on that system. - 12/05/2011 06:22:58 PM 917 Views
It is pretty common practice - 12/05/2011 06:54:02 PM 959 Views
Oh I'm sure it is with newer churches. - 12/05/2011 10:49:11 PM 1010 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible. - 12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM 1145 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape. - 12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM 966 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit. - 12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM 1099 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis - 12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM 1014 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any. - 12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM 981 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? - 13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM 996 Views
Re: Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? - 13/05/2011 07:02:35 PM 966 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part. - 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM 899 Views
Danny will correct me if I'm wrong, but... - 13/05/2011 09:55:14 PM 1092 Views
Danny persistently refuses to say that - 13/05/2011 10:13:55 PM 1033 Views
And with respect to your textual point, once again you're wrong - 12/05/2011 07:44:10 PM 1116 Views
You're a fucking moron. *NM* - 15/05/2011 11:11:08 PM 453 Views
You make a very important but too often overlooked point. - 14/05/2011 01:54:40 AM 1100 Views
??? the bible was harsher on homosexulaity than on rape - 12/05/2011 06:56:43 PM 957 Views
Read Judges. - 12/05/2011 07:17:29 PM 963 Views
Another example... - 12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM 877 Views
That's what people said about churches opposing slavery. - 12/05/2011 04:06:26 PM 951 Views
I rest my case *NM* - 12/05/2011 04:48:32 PM 417 Views
That is a false dichotomy and we both know it. - 14/05/2011 02:07:19 AM 937 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct. - 12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM 883 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats. - 12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM 936 Views
We both know that isn't the case - 12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM 1043 Views
Whatever your issue is, get over it. - 13/05/2011 06:17:26 PM 896 Views
You'd be a lot more effective... - 13/05/2011 06:45:31 PM 1018 Views
You haven't adequately expressed your theology - 13/05/2011 07:28:54 PM 999 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels - 12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM 995 Views
Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... - 13/05/2011 07:14:01 PM 911 Views
Re: Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... - 15/05/2011 03:18:23 PM 1322 Views

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