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Re: Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... Dannymac Send a noteboard - 15/05/2011 03:18:23 PM
I'll save you most of the jargon, but in short, the section of our constitution that forbade practicing homosexuals from being Ordained to Ministry of Word and Sacrament has been lifted. It doesn't force churches to ordain homosexuals, but it allows them to do so.


First, let me wish PCUSA well, I hope this decision - which I am dubious on - does not rupture your fellowship.

If I understand this correctly, as a whole the ban is lifted but churches may still reject people on those grounds, which appeals to my localized control of things even if I can't see a scriptural justification for this. But can you, if possible, list a few other things which are still banned, or which also are, like this, left to the individual churches?

And somewhat separately, is homosexuality still being considered a sin, also separately, I gather gay marriage was also on the table, can you address that in this context?

This is one of those things that I was never quite sure would happen in my lifetime. I am extremely proud of my denomination right now. It won't be easy, and a lot of folks are likely to leave. But better folks leaving by choice then being forced out by polity, in my opinion.


Having been raised Unitarian - at least until I was old enough to look up the term 'atheist' - I can tell you that the only thing worse than a religion with doctrinal disputes is one without any, either because they permit none or can't have any. I guess the silver lining is knowing that everyone involved cares enough about the Word of God to argue about it or even break fellowship.


In order to be ordained in the Presbyterian Church, a potential Pastor they must first be a member in good standing with an individual congregation that is willing to sponsor them. Then they go through a rigorous process over the course of years, studying the scriptures, reading the theologians that went before, and undergoing independent psychological examination to determine their appropriateness for ministry. There are five tests, our ordination exams, that test competency in Exegesis (Scriptural work) Polity (Church government) Worship and Sacraments, Theology, and basic Biblical Competency. Then they are examined by their Presbytery (our most powerful level of government, comparable to counties in American Government) and finally must be called by an individual congregation.

It's not an easy process, and people are individually examined, not placed into a rubric with so many "yes" or "no" checks required. The section of our constitution that was removed was an oddity in that it created such a rubric, even if it was one with only two questions, that being of chastity in singleness and fidelity in marriage.

Those standards have not gone away, but have gone with all the others, to the discretion of the churches, presbyteries, and pastors in each individual call. Some churches may still feel that it is inappropriate to call a practicing homosexual to be their pastor, and so they won't.
Eschew Verbosity
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Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A. - 11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM 1429 Views
*NM* - 11/05/2011 06:10:26 PM 318 Views
I am happy to see this. *NM* - 11/05/2011 07:22:59 PM 365 Views
Homosexuals must die! - 11/05/2011 08:25:25 PM 1095 Views
I agree! This sort of behavior can NOT be excused!!! - 11/05/2011 10:38:16 PM 739 Views
Yay!!. - 11/05/2011 10:38:51 PM 990 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* - 11/05/2011 10:46:39 PM 414 Views
Well done. *NM* - 11/05/2011 11:07:22 PM 362 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification? - 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM 970 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests. - 12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM 912 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood? - 12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM 857 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much. - 12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM 802 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned - 12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM 811 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route. - 14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM 768 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible. - 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM 839 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means. - 14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM 1010 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy. - 14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM 820 Views
Wow. - 20/05/2011 10:15:21 AM 841 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though). - 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM 896 Views
It's more a question of interpretational standards. - 12/05/2011 02:29:43 PM 780 Views
Agreed. - 14/05/2011 01:17:45 AM 853 Views
They did so, via negativa. - 12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM 950 Views
Your church has a constitution?! - 12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM 818 Views
My Church has a congress! *NM* - 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM 401 Views
Haha no way! *NM* - 12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM 354 Views
We have a General Assembly and a Moderator. - 12/05/2011 04:18:34 PM 910 Views
I had no idea the US was based on that system. - 12/05/2011 06:22:58 PM 745 Views
It is pretty common practice - 12/05/2011 06:54:02 PM 781 Views
Oh I'm sure it is with newer churches. - 12/05/2011 10:49:11 PM 835 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible. - 12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM 1005 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape. - 12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM 837 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit. - 12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM 963 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis - 12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM 882 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any. - 12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM 850 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? - 13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM 855 Views
Re: Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? - 13/05/2011 07:02:35 PM 827 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part. - 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM 751 Views
Danny will correct me if I'm wrong, but... - 13/05/2011 09:55:14 PM 957 Views
Danny persistently refuses to say that - 13/05/2011 10:13:55 PM 884 Views
You're a fucking moron. *NM* - 15/05/2011 11:11:08 PM 387 Views
You make a very important but too often overlooked point. - 14/05/2011 01:54:40 AM 905 Views
??? the bible was harsher on homosexulaity than on rape - 12/05/2011 06:56:43 PM 813 Views
Read Judges. - 12/05/2011 07:17:29 PM 814 Views
Another example... - 12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM 750 Views
That's what people said about churches opposing slavery. - 12/05/2011 04:06:26 PM 805 Views
I rest my case *NM* - 12/05/2011 04:48:32 PM 351 Views
That is a false dichotomy and we both know it. - 14/05/2011 02:07:19 AM 803 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct. - 12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM 749 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats. - 12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM 788 Views
We both know that isn't the case - 12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM 892 Views
Whatever your issue is, get over it. - 13/05/2011 06:17:26 PM 766 Views
You'd be a lot more effective... - 13/05/2011 06:45:31 PM 869 Views
You haven't adequately expressed your theology - 13/05/2011 07:28:54 PM 865 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels - 12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM 854 Views
Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... - 13/05/2011 07:14:01 PM 768 Views
Re: Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... - 15/05/2011 03:18:23 PM 1171 Views

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