Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
Joel Send a noteboard - 19/05/2011 04:55:21 AM
Joel Send a noteboard - 19/05/2011 04:55:21 AM
Statements like that are what make me nervous, because you seem to be saying we know exotic dark matter is out there and are now simply refining our understanding of that known substance. Another unhypothesized approach might be accurate, but we've already found the answer so we won't bother looking for it. If you're just saying direct detection experiments will narrow the space of all possible theories that's different, of course, but if you're saying dark matter has been proven by default and we're just seeking experimental and observational evidence to better describe what we know to exist we're back where we started: We've never directly detected it, but we know it's there, so let's keep looking till we find it. Whether it actually IS there or not. I'm not confident that we'll quickly realize if it's not there because it's impossible to prove a negative; that's why there are still people looking for proton decay despite the fact it's not only unlikely to occur, but unlikely to be detectable in any reproducable way even if it does.
The evidence we have points very strongly toward dark matter being exotic. (This is what, the dozenth time I've said this?) That means that most physicists are going to focus on those avenues. Some physicists will continue to focus on other avenues. This is how research works in any field.
True, and as it should be, I just want to be certain we don't mistake very compelling evidence for incontrovertible proof, certainly not to the point of ignoring superior alternatives. That there are plenty of people eager to make a name for themselves by invalidating an established principle is somewhat encouraging in that respect, but it's still expecting objective fact from people with an agenda, and exotic dark matter isn't really "establishment" enough to attract rather than repel such contrariness.
Your problem seems to be that you're tossing around these qualitative "worries" without any quantitative analysis. When you do this, every concern seems like it's all or nothing; this is virtually never actually the case. The repeated comparisons to proton decay (a subject actively researched by only a handful of people) demonstrate how divorced your worrying is from quantitative reality.
I think it's more that I'm looking at the quantitative track record of scientific theory in general rather than the data on dark matter specifically, and I see how that's probably a mistake. Ultimately any theory has to stand on its the merits of observation supporting it rather than be tested against the collective success of past theories. Not only is its validity independent of theirs, but since much of the exercise is reducing areas of known inaccuracy, it's easy to cite a mountain of disproven and/or modified theories that don't prove much except the limitations of mans intellect and knowledge, which is a motive rather than deterrent to further research. Most people aren't researching proton decay because it's increasingly untenable--but research continues regardless, which isn't a bad thing in itself, so long as it does become an END in itself, in defiance of evidence. Other than a GUT as old as I am, what GUTs DON'T require proton decay?
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Exciting video about the universe
- 28/04/2011 10:14:55 AM
1436 Views
I still think dark matter's just non-luminous matter without a convenient light source to reflect.
- 28/04/2011 10:34:21 PM
1144 Views
We've just about ruled out the idea that dark matter is just non-luminous "ordinary" matter.
- 28/04/2011 11:44:34 PM
1087 Views
I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
- 29/04/2011 01:52:49 AM
1005 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
- 29/04/2011 02:56:32 AM
1114 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
- 30/04/2011 05:02:49 PM
1061 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
- 30/04/2011 08:56:35 PM
994 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
- 02/05/2011 01:28:30 AM
979 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that.
- 04/05/2011 04:18:18 AM
1072 Views
There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
- 07/05/2011 02:04:53 AM
1156 Views
- 07/05/2011 02:04:53 AM
1156 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
- 09/05/2011 11:28:48 PM
981 Views
- 09/05/2011 11:28:48 PM
981 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
- 14/05/2011 05:36:45 AM
960 Views
- 14/05/2011 05:36:45 AM
960 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
- 17/05/2011 02:09:40 AM
1010 Views
- 17/05/2011 02:09:40 AM
1010 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
- 19/05/2011 04:55:21 AM
950 Views
- 19/05/2011 04:55:21 AM
950 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am.
- 24/05/2011 09:32:27 PM
1022 Views
- 24/05/2011 09:32:27 PM
1022 Views
The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind.
- 24/05/2011 10:34:04 PM
965 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind.
- 24/05/2011 11:08:01 PM
1219 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind.
- 25/05/2011 01:27:10 AM
997 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind.
- 31/05/2011 09:16:18 AM
1073 Views
Apologies for the delay; internet's been spotty and I've been busy lately.
- 10/06/2011 12:09:04 AM
1323 Views
Re: Apologies for the delay; internet's been spotty and I've been busy lately.
- 14/06/2011 03:38:18 AM
1317 Views
Also, re: lensing from ordinary matter:
- 29/04/2011 05:18:47 AM
1014 Views
This seems like another example of what confuses the issue.
- 30/04/2011 05:25:04 PM
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Re: This seems like another example of what confuses the issue.
- 30/04/2011 08:56:40 PM
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That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 02/05/2011 01:29:03 AM
1089 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 04/05/2011 04:18:24 AM
1034 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 07/05/2011 02:05:02 AM
1239 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 09/05/2011 11:29:36 PM
998 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 14/05/2011 05:35:56 AM
1298 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 17/05/2011 02:09:55 AM
882 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 19/05/2011 02:47:25 AM
1235 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 24/05/2011 09:46:30 PM
1020 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 25/05/2011 12:20:10 AM
1329 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 31/05/2011 09:16:22 AM
1206 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 10/06/2011 12:04:06 AM
1386 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible".
- 14/06/2011 03:38:12 AM
1131 Views
Re: I still think... (apparently, there is a 100 character limit on subjects, and yours was 99)
- 28/04/2011 11:57:15 PM
1467 Views
Seems to happen to me a lot; sorry.
- 29/04/2011 12:56:14 AM
994 Views
None of this reflects on the actual facts of dark matter.
- 29/04/2011 01:32:52 AM
1017 Views
I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes.
- 30/04/2011 04:30:28 PM
1135 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes.
- 30/04/2011 08:56:44 PM
979 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes.
- 02/05/2011 01:28:58 AM
1489 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes.
- 04/05/2011 04:18:27 AM
970 Views
I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 07/05/2011 02:05:09 AM
1240 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 09/05/2011 11:32:17 PM
1097 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 14/05/2011 05:36:24 AM
1323 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 17/05/2011 02:10:03 AM
1007 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 19/05/2011 04:33:06 AM
1289 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 24/05/2011 09:59:38 PM
1007 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 24/05/2011 11:19:43 PM
961 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 24/05/2011 11:33:58 PM
930 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 25/05/2011 12:55:36 AM
1020 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 31/05/2011 09:16:24 AM
986 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 10/06/2011 12:09:13 AM
1155 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should.
- 14/06/2011 03:38:05 AM
1143 Views
Might help if you clarified where your skepticism is at
- 29/04/2011 02:32:07 AM
949 Views
Potentially either, or a combination of the two.
- 30/04/2011 02:36:50 PM
1017 Views
It's hard to discuss without knowing your objections a bit more clearly
- 30/04/2011 04:58:03 PM
938 Views
My primary objection is that alternatives to dark matter seem to have been ruled out prematurely.
- 02/05/2011 01:29:14 AM
1152 Views
