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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly Send a noteboard - 31/05/2011 09:16:24 AM
The particle canon was ultimately questioned, yes, and that's encouraging; the status of GUTs is more troubling. The original GUT doesn't require (despite allowing) proton decay, but seems to be alone in that respect, despite experiments consistently arguing against proton decay (without ruling it out), and a GUT remains a necessary stop on the road to a ToE. I sincerely hope the picture is less muddled than that for those actively leading the search for explanations, though on one level a little confusion would be somewhat encouraging because it would mean people are questioning the canon. From the outside it often feels like GUTs multiply at the same rate "fundamental" particles once did, without improving our understanding any more.


GUTs, despite containing "theory" in their name, are all hypotheses at this point. Hypotheses often multiply without improving our understanding very much, because most of them are wrong. That's why we should try to avoid high levels of confidence in unsupported hypotheses, but we should not avoid generating them altogether, because we have to find the correct ones somehow.

Perhaps not the field as a whole, but since Dr. Carroll says exotic dark matter is confirmed beyond reasonable doubt, I "doubt" he's looking very hard for alternatives. I'm sure there are plenty of similar examples, but that's one we can both agree is representative.


Sean Carroll, like many theorists, constantly looks at new submissions from other theorists on arXiv and in print journals, which includes numerous alternative proposals for dark matter. Everyone wants to be the person who blazes a new trail, but no one wants to be the person who wanders off the trail and gets lost in the woods. Sean, like many astrophysicists, has made the judgment that the risk of getting lost in the woods in this area is no longer worth the reward of blazing a new trail. At this point, you seem to be complaining that Sean has a higher level of confidence than you do in exotic dark matter, as though your level of confidence were more appropriate despite your unfamiliarity with large amounts of the evidence and the fact that cosmology is actually his field. Who's the arrogant one supposed to be, again?

Not "thought police"; people can think what they wish, but in terms of reason everyone should, though not everyone does, take a critical view, and that's perfectly valid. I'm not questioning their math or their data, I'm simply saying that constructing untested hypotheses on top of others is dubious even if one team got lucky doing so. What would you think of a hypothesis right now that began "assuming dark energy is ultimately proven to exist... "? It might be interesting and even constructive thinking, and might ultimately be verified, but reproducing verifiable proof of something founded on something itself unverified seems a bit sketchy.


I would not think anything special about such a hypothesis; I've heard many that start in just that way. This is how generating hypotheses works; again, no one is putting a high level of confidence in such constructions right away. If you don't like this system, feel free to come up with a better one; I wish you the best of luck.
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Exciting video about the universe Camilla - 28/04/2011 10:14:55 AM 1409 Views
Cool, and true *NM* Stephen - 28/04/2011 11:46:29 AM 493 Views
I still think dark matter's just non-luminous matter without a convenient light source to reflect. Joel - 28/04/2011 10:34:21 PM 1117 Views
We've just about ruled out the idea that dark matter is just non-luminous "ordinary" matter. Dreaded Anomaly - 28/04/2011 11:44:34 PM 1063 Views
I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Joel - 29/04/2011 01:52:49 AM 975 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Dreaded Anomaly - 29/04/2011 02:56:32 AM 1086 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Joel - 30/04/2011 05:02:49 PM 1025 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Dreaded Anomaly - 30/04/2011 08:56:35 PM 970 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Joel - 02/05/2011 01:28:30 AM 956 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Dreaded Anomaly - 04/05/2011 04:18:18 AM 1033 Views
There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Joel - 07/05/2011 02:04:53 AM 1129 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Dreaded Anomaly - 09/05/2011 11:28:48 PM 956 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Joel - 14/05/2011 05:36:45 AM 929 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Dreaded Anomaly - 17/05/2011 02:09:40 AM 983 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Joel - 19/05/2011 04:55:21 AM 926 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 09:32:27 PM 993 Views
The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Joel - 24/05/2011 10:34:04 PM 940 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 11:08:01 PM 1163 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Joel - 25/05/2011 01:27:10 AM 966 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Dreaded Anomaly - 31/05/2011 09:16:18 AM 1044 Views
Apologies for the delay; internet's been spotty and I've been busy lately. Joel - 10/06/2011 12:09:04 AM 1295 Views
Re: Apologies for the delay; internet's been spotty and I've been busy lately. Dreaded Anomaly - 14/06/2011 03:38:18 AM 1288 Views
Also, re: lensing from ordinary matter: Dreaded Anomaly - 29/04/2011 05:18:47 AM 978 Views
This seems like another example of what confuses the issue. Joel - 30/04/2011 05:25:04 PM 1097 Views
Re: This seems like another example of what confuses the issue. Dreaded Anomaly - 30/04/2011 08:56:40 PM 1061 Views
That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 02/05/2011 01:29:03 AM 1064 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 04/05/2011 04:18:24 AM 1002 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 07/05/2011 02:05:02 AM 1211 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 09/05/2011 11:29:36 PM 966 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 14/05/2011 05:35:56 AM 1272 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 17/05/2011 02:09:55 AM 852 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 19/05/2011 02:47:25 AM 1214 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 09:46:30 PM 987 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 25/05/2011 12:20:10 AM 1298 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 31/05/2011 09:16:22 AM 1164 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 10/06/2011 12:04:06 AM 1356 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 14/06/2011 03:38:12 AM 1101 Views
Re: I still think... (apparently, there is a 100 character limit on subjects, and yours was 99) Tor - 28/04/2011 11:57:15 PM 1434 Views
Seems to happen to me a lot; sorry. Joel - 29/04/2011 12:56:14 AM 967 Views
None of this reflects on the actual facts of dark matter. Dreaded Anomaly - 29/04/2011 01:32:52 AM 990 Views
I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Joel - 30/04/2011 04:30:28 PM 1106 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Dreaded Anomaly - 30/04/2011 08:56:44 PM 924 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Joel - 02/05/2011 01:28:58 AM 1457 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Dreaded Anomaly - 04/05/2011 04:18:27 AM 934 Views
I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 07/05/2011 02:05:09 AM 1202 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 09/05/2011 11:32:17 PM 1067 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 14/05/2011 05:36:24 AM 1292 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 17/05/2011 02:10:03 AM 982 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 19/05/2011 04:33:06 AM 1265 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 09:59:38 PM 982 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 24/05/2011 11:19:43 PM 940 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 11:33:58 PM 902 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 25/05/2011 12:55:36 AM 995 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 31/05/2011 09:16:24 AM 960 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 10/06/2011 12:09:13 AM 1127 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 14/06/2011 03:38:05 AM 1117 Views
Might help if you clarified where your skepticism is at Isaac - 29/04/2011 02:32:07 AM 922 Views
Potentially either, or a combination of the two. Joel - 30/04/2011 02:36:50 PM 990 Views
It's hard to discuss without knowing your objections a bit more clearly Isaac - 30/04/2011 04:58:03 PM 908 Views
My primary objection is that alternatives to dark matter seem to have been ruled out prematurely. Joel - 02/05/2011 01:29:14 AM 1110 Views
Well, they weren't, not really sure how else to put that Isaac - 10/05/2011 03:19:57 AM 1122 Views
Alright then, objection withdrawn (cautious skepticism intact). Joel - 14/05/2011 05:34:17 AM 1237 Views
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