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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly Send a noteboard - 14/06/2011 03:38:05 AM
Generating hypotheses by itself is not science; it's really not even amateur philosophy, just day dreaming. Anything you can't test is just speculation, not science; without the scientific method, what is science but speculation? More practically, how does pulling something out of our rear that MIGHT be true (but unverifiable) advance anything? If that qualifies as science angels and aliens are sound scientific hypotheses. When you speculate on speculation, yes, most of your hypotheses will be wrong: That's the problem.


If you put gas in your car and don't turn the key, the car doesn't go anywhere, so what's the point of gas?

Science needs multiple elements to succeed; different people make different contributions. We can't test ideas if we don't have any! This is not a hard concept, and I really don't understand why you are persistently bothered by it.

He's no longer claiming confidence alone, but certainty, emphatically and repeatedly. That it was a pre-existing certainty only underscores the reservations that creates in me. Remember, I'm no longer saying exotic dark matter isn't very probably valid, just that it's still too soon to treat it as the slam dunk Dr. Carroll does. It's clear he'd already come to that conclusion and is only citing supporting evidence as it becomes available; that he has the education and awareness to find it doesn't make it more credible.


Sean has worked in this field for virtually his entire adult life and has made significant contributions to physics and science outreach. He has a clear and broad understanding of astrophysics and the universe as humanity has observed it so far. You have an opinion on the issue based on an understanding of astrophysics which could charitably be called shaky and very little time spent looking at the evidence. You continue to resist revising your opinion to the appropriate level given the evidence. But yeah, it must be Sean (and most other astrophysicists) who is rationalizing. Give me a break.

It's called, "the scientific method", and involves hypotheses one can test, not simply throwing out an idea not fundamentally contradicted by current evidence and hoping someone some day finds a way to test it that ultimately validates it. That's a lot bigger and less certain area than pure science; let's say there's a God, and based on that hypothesis let's say He created man in His image: Having established those things we can say all SORTS of things on the basis of them. None of them would be science though.


We won't ever figure out how to test a hypothesis, or if we already have evidence relevant to it, if we don't explore the idea. Theoretical science looks for new ideas, as opposed to theology, which continues to look at old ideas that have already made numerous failed predictions and are no longer worthy of consideration. Yes, theoretical papers won't be right all the time, or maybe even a majority of the time; that's still very different from continuing to go in directions that are obviously, blatantly wrong.
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Exciting video about the universe Camilla - 28/04/2011 10:14:55 AM 1046 Views
Cool, and true *NM* Stephen - 28/04/2011 11:46:29 AM 311 Views
I still think dark matter's just non-luminous matter without a convenient light source to reflect. Joel - 28/04/2011 10:34:21 PM 781 Views
We've just about ruled out the idea that dark matter is just non-luminous "ordinary" matter. Dreaded Anomaly - 28/04/2011 11:44:34 PM 711 Views
I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Joel - 29/04/2011 01:52:49 AM 646 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Dreaded Anomaly - 29/04/2011 02:56:32 AM 752 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Joel - 30/04/2011 05:02:49 PM 712 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Dreaded Anomaly - 30/04/2011 08:56:35 PM 583 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Joel - 02/05/2011 01:28:30 AM 619 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Dreaded Anomaly - 04/05/2011 04:18:18 AM 720 Views
There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Joel - 07/05/2011 02:04:53 AM 795 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Dreaded Anomaly - 09/05/2011 11:28:48 PM 628 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Joel - 14/05/2011 05:36:45 AM 575 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Dreaded Anomaly - 17/05/2011 02:09:40 AM 670 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Joel - 19/05/2011 04:55:21 AM 590 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 09:32:27 PM 666 Views
The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Joel - 24/05/2011 10:34:04 PM 610 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 11:08:01 PM 818 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Joel - 25/05/2011 01:27:10 AM 628 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Dreaded Anomaly - 31/05/2011 09:16:18 AM 696 Views
Apologies for the delay; internet's been spotty and I've been busy lately. Joel - 10/06/2011 12:09:04 AM 944 Views
Re: Apologies for the delay; internet's been spotty and I've been busy lately. Dreaded Anomaly - 14/06/2011 03:38:18 AM 948 Views
Also, re: lensing from ordinary matter: Dreaded Anomaly - 29/04/2011 05:18:47 AM 637 Views
This seems like another example of what confuses the issue. Joel - 30/04/2011 05:25:04 PM 727 Views
Re: This seems like another example of what confuses the issue. Dreaded Anomaly - 30/04/2011 08:56:40 PM 735 Views
That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 02/05/2011 01:29:03 AM 733 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 04/05/2011 04:18:24 AM 690 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 07/05/2011 02:05:02 AM 868 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 09/05/2011 11:29:36 PM 626 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 14/05/2011 05:35:56 AM 906 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 17/05/2011 02:09:55 AM 535 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 19/05/2011 02:47:25 AM 868 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 09:46:30 PM 660 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 25/05/2011 12:20:10 AM 940 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 31/05/2011 09:16:22 AM 743 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 10/06/2011 12:04:06 AM 994 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 14/06/2011 03:38:12 AM 758 Views
Re: I still think... (apparently, there is a 100 character limit on subjects, and yours was 99) Tor - 28/04/2011 11:57:15 PM 949 Views
Seems to happen to me a lot; sorry. Joel - 29/04/2011 12:56:14 AM 654 Views
None of this reflects on the actual facts of dark matter. Dreaded Anomaly - 29/04/2011 01:32:52 AM 624 Views
I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Joel - 30/04/2011 04:30:28 PM 748 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Dreaded Anomaly - 30/04/2011 08:56:44 PM 579 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Joel - 02/05/2011 01:28:58 AM 1094 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Dreaded Anomaly - 04/05/2011 04:18:27 AM 622 Views
I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 07/05/2011 02:05:09 AM 815 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 09/05/2011 11:32:17 PM 735 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 14/05/2011 05:36:24 AM 891 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 17/05/2011 02:10:03 AM 646 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 19/05/2011 04:33:06 AM 888 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 09:59:38 PM 639 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 24/05/2011 11:19:43 PM 608 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 11:33:58 PM 568 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 25/05/2011 12:55:36 AM 690 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 31/05/2011 09:16:24 AM 602 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 10/06/2011 12:09:13 AM 786 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 14/06/2011 03:38:05 AM 755 Views
Might help if you clarified where your skepticism is at Isaac - 29/04/2011 02:32:07 AM 602 Views
Potentially either, or a combination of the two. Joel - 30/04/2011 02:36:50 PM 662 Views
It's hard to discuss without knowing your objections a bit more clearly Isaac - 30/04/2011 04:58:03 PM 580 Views
My primary objection is that alternatives to dark matter seem to have been ruled out prematurely. Joel - 02/05/2011 01:29:14 AM 719 Views
Well, they weren't, not really sure how else to put that Isaac - 10/05/2011 03:19:57 AM 742 Views
Alright then, objection withdrawn (cautious skepticism intact). Joel - 14/05/2011 05:34:17 AM 862 Views
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