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I'm not. Joel Send a noteboard - 26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM
So it's someone you could relate to for once. Btw, I'm shocked how the right wing isn't condemning these shootings!

Even before I saw the article on Fox and our former UN Ambassador attempting to defend not just the right but right wing EXTREMISTS by disavowing Breivik as a member of either, I'd already noted this in passing:
The rapid swing in the press away from blaming Islamists and towards “right-wing extremists” reflects the recent announcements of further investigations from a variety of governmental and UN authorities into these groups. Criticism has emerged in Europe where, at least according to a New York Times article, “...some experts say a climate of hatred in the political discourse has encouraged violent individuals.” Though this preposterous belief lost traction in the U.S. after Jared Loughner’s attempt to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords, it may find support in Europe.

In America, at least, the right isn't just washing their hands of far right terrorism, they're washing their hands of it AGAIN. Like I say, I'm just waiting for them to start screaming, "BLOOD LIBEL111" and pretending THEY (not the innocent murdered children) are the REAL victims here, like Palin did after several papers suggested her violent rhetoric and imagery "targeting" Giffords among others may have contributed to that shooting. Of course, there the right had an edge: Jared Loughner has been scrupulously tight lipped about what motives, if any, he had; Anders Breivik has been positively chatty about his far right motives. Nonetheless, a nominally non-partisan article in a police publication still refers to the idea that intolerant and hateful political rhetoric contributed in any way to this attack or threatens any additional ones as "preposterous". Nice to know the authorities are checking out all credible threats to public safety, eh?

What really concerns me is the extent to which supposedly mainstream conservatives are embracing the notion that Breivik was "just" a psychopath with no affiliation, when they don't go all the way 'round the bend and assert he was far-LEFT, in defiance of virtually every available fact (he DID crib from the Unabomber, who was pretty much a far left terrorist, but that's the ONLY thing that MIGHT suggest anything but a far right affiliation in Breivik). They're actively seeking to distant him from conservatism, often from EXTREME conservatism in particular (as in the case of former Ambassador Bolton) even when they don't try to associate him with liberalism. That gives some weight to his claims that he will only be the first of many; apparently there really are a lot of far right extremists out there whose biggest concern here is to avoid culpability rather than further violence. Put it this way: If I didn't already, I'd understand quite well why Bolton fought so hard to keep the US out of the ICC (despite the fact it was our freaking idea; it's the League of Nations all over again, really).
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This message last edited by Joel on 26/07/2011 at 08:20:24 AM
  • Edit 1 by Joel on 26/07/2011 at 08:20:24 AM
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Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist). - 26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM 1344 Views
Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM* - 26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM 393 Views
How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM* - 26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM 391 Views
That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist. - 26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM 500 Views
Well said - 26/07/2011 12:11:45 PM 413 Views
Thanks. - 26/07/2011 11:46:42 PM 443 Views
Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist - 26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM 454 Views
I'm not. - 26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM 620 Views
funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left - 26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM 502 Views
No one called him "American right" - 26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM 442 Views
so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM* - 26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM 473 Views
They don't have to claim him. - 26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM 438 Views
Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man - 26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM 450 Views
I neither care nor am responsible for US media - 26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM 433 Views
this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed? - 26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM 411 Views
Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM 514 Views
Re: Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:46:47 PM 377 Views
just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist - 26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM 430 Views
People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views. - 26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM 526 Views
sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality - 26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM 534 Views
I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement, - 26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM 463 Views
once again I was referring to the use of the term in the US - 26/07/2011 08:30:48 PM 475 Views
Precisely. - 27/07/2011 12:00:33 AM 407 Views
I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy - 26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM 420 Views
Yeah, how dare we horn in on your schtick. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:43 PM 379 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2011 08:51:23 PM 326 Views
- 26/07/2011 10:16:12 PM 413 Views
Ignorance is bliss? - 26/07/2011 11:08:53 AM 422 Views
Sometimes - 26/07/2011 08:01:27 PM 459 Views
He says (through his lawyer) ... - 26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM 480 Views
funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied - 26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 423 Views
I have no idea what you're talking about. - 26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM 441 Views
Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist - 26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM 429 Views
Now I see what you mean. - 26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM 419 Views
And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste - 26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM 469 Views
I listened to that clip last night - 26/07/2011 10:26:24 AM 486 Views
Unbefuckinglievable *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:12:03 AM 357 Views
Oh, and he was also showing what a huge hypocrite he is - 26/07/2011 12:12:20 PM 498 Views
I don't want to keep saying "wow," but what else? - 26/07/2011 04:26:32 PM 453 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 01:49:02 AM 428 Views
why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid? - 26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM 487 Views
+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona..... - 26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM 416 Views
Really? (+edit) - 26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM 378 Views
no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right - 26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM 546 Views
... - 26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM 553 Views
This was my point. - 26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM 391 Views
so are you pulling crap out of thin air now? - 26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM 496 Views
You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back. - 26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM 342 Views
I may be frustrated but I think it is justified - 27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM 387 Views
I'm sorry if my comment was stupid. - 27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM 425 Views
I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you - 27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM 419 Views
Who is "traszka"? *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:33:49 PM 395 Views
'm going to try not to be offensive here, but the way I see it - 26/07/2011 04:35:54 PM 455 Views
I don't like Fox's opinion news shows and I don't watch them - 26/07/2011 06:21:01 PM 426 Views
Gah wrong place *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:07 PM 359 Views
BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right? - 26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM 385 Views
Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said? - 27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM 465 Views
He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism. - 27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM 465 Views
Joel you truly are unhinged so I am done *NM* - 27/07/2011 01:11:43 AM 411 Views
Fair enough. - 27/07/2011 01:17:43 AM 418 Views
Pretty funny - 26/07/2011 01:47:19 PM 547 Views
The worst shooting massacre in history is not "pretty funny". - 26/07/2011 11:33:59 PM 377 Views
You people all need to get a grip - 26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM 455 Views
+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM 430 Views
Try not replying next time, then. *NM* - 26/07/2011 10:10:27 PM 408 Views
That's what I'm trying to do. - 26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM 465 Views
Joel you are so full of shit - 26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM 391 Views
Read Joel's post title again, will you? - 26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 513 Views
Oh please, Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM 456 Views
Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM 457 Views
Bullshit - 27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM 459 Views
While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to - 27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM 431 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 11:50:02 AM 407 Views
I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions. - 27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM 457 Views
No trolling? And you include the first reply in that? - 27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM 483 Views
I don't know why Traska thinks that - 27/07/2011 07:37:50 PM 530 Views
yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM* - 27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM 369 Views
I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 04:00:27 PM 470 Views
Re: I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 08:09:31 PM 518 Views
extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them - 27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM 509 Views
Well - 27/07/2011 04:27:25 PM 413 Views
Joel's title and Joel's post really don't have much in common - 26/07/2011 11:52:36 PM 425 Views
Not just some guest on Fox News, also Bushs UN Ambassador. - 27/07/2011 12:32:40 AM 395 Views
One of us is. - 27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM 446 Views
maybe Legolas is right and you are to close to this *NM* - 27/07/2011 12:39:29 AM 373 Views
Wibble, but maybe. - 27/07/2011 01:15:31 AM 499 Views
not really have you seen the main board? not much action. - 26/07/2011 10:40:21 PM 399 Views
A suggestion - 27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM 409 Views
Maybe. - 27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM 532 Views
But there's a problem in all that - 27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM 597 Views
O'Reilly Shreds Media for Calling Norway Terrorist 'Christian' - 27/07/2011 05:14:30 AM 553 Views
Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand - 27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM 425 Views
I blame nested threads. - 27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM 513 Views