It's the liberals fault they were murdered; I get that that's the American far right argument.
Joel Send a noteboard - 26/07/2011 11:09:25 PM
Guess that's another example of how much farther right Americas far right is than Europes; the Norwegian far right party of which Breivik is a former member has condemned and repudiated him and, for probably the first time in their history, stands with the Labor Party that's kept them out of power since WWII.
"Is this guy a psychopath, or is he emblematic of a huge Christian movement we've been ignoring?" When Fox makes that loaded question the discussion topic for an entire segment of their morning show you can't claim it's just the individual opinion of one weird guest (and we'll just conveniently ignore what inviting far right whackjobs to speak on their morning show would say about Fox anyway). Networks script that crap; that's why the question invites the desired answer that Breivik's "just" a psychopath rather than a symptom of a larger and more dangerous problem. But while we're here, let's talk about sociopathy. According to the Amercian Pyschiatric Association diagnosis on the basis that (among other things):
The second point covers the whole "Breivik is actually a liberal despite being a militaristic nationalist and former member of Norways most far right party" and "Norways Labor Party youthcamp is like the Hitler Youth" insanity. The third and sixth points are well reprented by policies like insisting on low taxes despite record debt, and expecting that debt to disappear through spending cuts alone despite the fact that's mathematically impossible. That those spending cuts which would greatly harm others are an ideal means of preserving ones own opulence is a great example of the final point. And, of course, the reason I brought this up is that repeatedly dismissing murders motivated by ones violent and extreme rhetoric is a great example of reckless disregard for others safety as well as as indifference and/or rationalizing the harm one does others for personal gain.
In short, I've begun to think that sociopathy can be INDUCED, en masse; that's essentially what terrorist training camps do, what the ACTUAL Hitler Youth did, and why their products slaughter innocent children or anyone else their ideology dictates without hesitation. That's not a phenomenon exclusive to the left or right; as I noted elsewhere, most terrorist groups have almost purely far left ideology, but pursuing it through murder is as appalling and unacceptable as it is counterproductive.
It's REALLY tough being a liberal when you can be murdered by people who openly proclaim themselves "true conservatives" and have had party membership reflecting it, only to have their fellow conservatives insist the murderer was a liberal or his victims were Nazis, and how DARE I object to people being murdered down the street from me just because they share my politics? Yeah, my heart really bleeds for you, man; had I been sixty miles further west last week it might have LITERALLY bled FOR YOU. Guess poor misunderstood Anders Breivik was right about how persecuted conservatives are.
"Is this guy a psychopath, or is he emblematic of a huge Christian movement we've been ignoring?" When Fox makes that loaded question the discussion topic for an entire segment of their morning show you can't claim it's just the individual opinion of one weird guest (and we'll just conveniently ignore what inviting far right whackjobs to speak on their morning show would say about Fox anyway). Networks script that crap; that's why the question invites the desired answer that Breivik's "just" a psychopath rather than a symptom of a larger and more dangerous problem. But while we're here, let's talk about sociopathy. According to the Amercian Pyschiatric Association diagnosis on the basis that (among other things):
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:
failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
The second point covers the whole "Breivik is actually a liberal despite being a militaristic nationalist and former member of Norways most far right party" and "Norways Labor Party youthcamp is like the Hitler Youth" insanity. The third and sixth points are well reprented by policies like insisting on low taxes despite record debt, and expecting that debt to disappear through spending cuts alone despite the fact that's mathematically impossible. That those spending cuts which would greatly harm others are an ideal means of preserving ones own opulence is a great example of the final point. And, of course, the reason I brought this up is that repeatedly dismissing murders motivated by ones violent and extreme rhetoric is a great example of reckless disregard for others safety as well as as indifference and/or rationalizing the harm one does others for personal gain.
In short, I've begun to think that sociopathy can be INDUCED, en masse; that's essentially what terrorist training camps do, what the ACTUAL Hitler Youth did, and why their products slaughter innocent children or anyone else their ideology dictates without hesitation. That's not a phenomenon exclusive to the left or right; as I noted elsewhere, most terrorist groups have almost purely far left ideology, but pursuing it through murder is as appalling and unacceptable as it is counterproductive.
"Fox News says" and the lead off example is something someone says who is only being interviewed as a guest of the show. Wow does the left blame every news shows for what their guest say or is only that Fox News makes liberals to stupid to see the difference? The entire article amounts to nothing more than childish whining because people on right won't just gleeful accept having mass murder be labeled as one of them. These are the same left wing hate mongers who twisted themselves into knots trying to argue the nutcase who shot the congresswoman in Arizona was a rightwing extremist when the opposite was closer to the truth. I assume they got their panties in a knot over Fox claiming that isn't true ass well. I must be tough being a liberal and having to walk around with knotted up panties because their is a news organization reporting things you would rather not be heard. Maybe we should shut them down then gather all the books they wrote and burn them.
And since when did technology journals become the mout5h pieces for extremist left wing dribble?
And since when did technology journals become the mout5h pieces for extremist left wing dribble?
It's REALLY tough being a liberal when you can be murdered by people who openly proclaim themselves "true conservatives" and have had party membership reflecting it, only to have their fellow conservatives insist the murderer was a liberal or his victims were Nazis, and how DARE I object to people being murdered down the street from me just because they share my politics? Yeah, my heart really bleeds for you, man; had I been sixty miles further west last week it might have LITERALLY bled FOR YOU. Guess poor misunderstood Anders Breivik was right about how persecuted conservatives are.

Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist).
26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM
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Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM*
26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM
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How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM*
26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM
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That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist.
26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM
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Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist
26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM
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I'm not.
26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM
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funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left
26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM
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No one called him "American right"
26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM
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so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM*
26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM
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They don't have to claim him.
26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM
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Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man
26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM
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I neither care nor am responsible for US media
26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM
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this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed?
26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM
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Yes but I didn't reply to the main article, but to Trzaska being ignorant
26/07/2011 04:36:52 PM
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Just to be clear
26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM
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just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist
26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM
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People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views.
26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM
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sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality
26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM
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I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement,
26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM
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See, the thing with an extremist, is that he doesn't have all that much in common with
26/07/2011 03:59:05 PM
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A right OR left wing extremist is just that; that's why your mouthpieces are so defensive.
26/07/2011 10:40:46 PM
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I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy
26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM
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He murders kids because they're liberal, you spit on their graves: You both belong in an asylum.
26/07/2011 07:54:08 AM
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Aaaaaaand you are back on my ignore list. Thanks for confirming my original instincts were right. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:18:25 AM
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He says (through his lawyer) ...
26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM
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funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied
26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM
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I have no idea what you're talking about.
26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM
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Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist
26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM
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Now I see what you mean.
26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM
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I would argue that his actions were tied to his beliefs on the specific issue of immigration
26/07/2011 06:11:23 PM
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And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste
26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM
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I'm seriously wondering if attacking the victims here will be the tipping point for US fascists.
26/07/2011 10:30:33 AM
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why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid?
26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM
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+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona.....
26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM
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Really? (+edit)
26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM
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no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right
26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM
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...
26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM
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if the term doesn't fit in the US then it makes no sense for US media to use the term here
26/07/2011 08:14:40 PM
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This was my point.
26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM
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so are you pulling crap out of thin air now?
26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM
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You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back.
26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM
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I may be frustrated but I think it is justified
27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM
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I'm sorry if my comment was stupid.
27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM
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I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you
27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM
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It's the liberals fault they were murdered; I get that that's the American far right argument.
26/07/2011 11:09:25 PM
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BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right?
26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM
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Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said?
27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM
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He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism.
27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM
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Wow. Let's just make this about us, why don't we?
26/07/2011 04:19:06 PM
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oh please the left is one trying to make about the right
26/07/2011 04:36:39 PM
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I'm referring to all Americans (both sides) who are currently fighting this out.
26/07/2011 04:44:45 PM
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I agree 100% that this issue shouldn't be used in American politics
26/07/2011 06:33:48 PM
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To Hell with them; even the normally indulgent American public will put them in a rubber room soon.
26/07/2011 11:36:13 PM
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You people all need to get a grip
26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM
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+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM*
26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM
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No, you do not agree with what Wibble said. Your +1 makes zero sense. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:11:31 PM
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That's what I'm trying to do.
26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM
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You are too close to this just now.
26/07/2011 10:17:22 PM
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Probably,but that it happened in perhaps the safest most liberal place on Earth makes it inescapable
27/07/2011 12:26:45 AM
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Joel you are so full of shit
26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM
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Read Joel's post title again, will you?
26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM
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Oh please, Legolas
26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM
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Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM
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Bullshit
27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM
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For the record, I've always supported guns for self defense (and hunting, and liberty from tyranny).
27/07/2011 10:52:02 AM
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While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to
27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM
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I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions.
27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM
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No trolling? And you include the first reply in that?
27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM
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so is the troll the person who makes the point or is the people who refuse to acknowledge it
27/07/2011 02:41:31 PM
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Do you think trz was right to call him an ultra left wing anarchist?
27/07/2011 04:15:50 PM
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I assumed he was referring to me when talked about picking fights with people
27/07/2011 05:53:43 PM
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yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM*
27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM
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extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them
27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM
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One of us is.
27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM
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Anyone saying Brevik has nothing in common with the American "Right" is lying to themselves
26/07/2011 08:49:29 PM
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glad you could come along, someone has to represent the ignorant kool-aid drinkers
26/07/2011 10:29:52 PM
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I don't mind them lying to themselves,but promoting the lie incites violent persecution complexes
26/07/2011 11:40:48 PM
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A suggestion
27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM
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Maybe.
27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM
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But there's a problem in all that
27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM
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In that response, "they" etc. specifically means the talking heads and their defenders.
27/07/2011 02:44:25 PM
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Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand
27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM
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I blame nested threads.
27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM
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Personally, I blame your need to have the final post in every conversation
27/07/2011 10:27:30 PM
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