It's the liberals fault they were murdered; I get that that's the American far right argument.
Joel Send a noteboard - 26/07/2011 11:09:25 PM
Guess that's another example of how much farther right Americas far right is than Europes; the Norwegian far right party of which Breivik is a former member has condemned and repudiated him and, for probably the first time in their history, stands with the Labor Party that's kept them out of power since WWII.
"Is this guy a psychopath, or is he emblematic of a huge Christian movement we've been ignoring?" When Fox makes that loaded question the discussion topic for an entire segment of their morning show you can't claim it's just the individual opinion of one weird guest (and we'll just conveniently ignore what inviting far right whackjobs to speak on their morning show would say about Fox anyway). Networks script that crap; that's why the question invites the desired answer that Breivik's "just" a psychopath rather than a symptom of a larger and more dangerous problem. But while we're here, let's talk about sociopathy. According to the Amercian Pyschiatric Association diagnosis on the basis that (among other things):
The second point covers the whole "Breivik is actually a liberal despite being a militaristic nationalist and former member of Norways most far right party" and "Norways Labor Party youthcamp is like the Hitler Youth" insanity. The third and sixth points are well reprented by policies like insisting on low taxes despite record debt, and expecting that debt to disappear through spending cuts alone despite the fact that's mathematically impossible. That those spending cuts which would greatly harm others are an ideal means of preserving ones own opulence is a great example of the final point. And, of course, the reason I brought this up is that repeatedly dismissing murders motivated by ones violent and extreme rhetoric is a great example of reckless disregard for others safety as well as as indifference and/or rationalizing the harm one does others for personal gain.
In short, I've begun to think that sociopathy can be INDUCED, en masse; that's essentially what terrorist training camps do, what the ACTUAL Hitler Youth did, and why their products slaughter innocent children or anyone else their ideology dictates without hesitation. That's not a phenomenon exclusive to the left or right; as I noted elsewhere, most terrorist groups have almost purely far left ideology, but pursuing it through murder is as appalling and unacceptable as it is counterproductive.
It's REALLY tough being a liberal when you can be murdered by people who openly proclaim themselves "true conservatives" and have had party membership reflecting it, only to have their fellow conservatives insist the murderer was a liberal or his victims were Nazis, and how DARE I object to people being murdered down the street from me just because they share my politics? Yeah, my heart really bleeds for you, man; had I been sixty miles further west last week it might have LITERALLY bled FOR YOU. Guess poor misunderstood Anders Breivik was right about how persecuted conservatives are.
"Is this guy a psychopath, or is he emblematic of a huge Christian movement we've been ignoring?" When Fox makes that loaded question the discussion topic for an entire segment of their morning show you can't claim it's just the individual opinion of one weird guest (and we'll just conveniently ignore what inviting far right whackjobs to speak on their morning show would say about Fox anyway). Networks script that crap; that's why the question invites the desired answer that Breivik's "just" a psychopath rather than a symptom of a larger and more dangerous problem. But while we're here, let's talk about sociopathy. According to the Amercian Pyschiatric Association diagnosis on the basis that (among other things):
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:
failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
The second point covers the whole "Breivik is actually a liberal despite being a militaristic nationalist and former member of Norways most far right party" and "Norways Labor Party youthcamp is like the Hitler Youth" insanity. The third and sixth points are well reprented by policies like insisting on low taxes despite record debt, and expecting that debt to disappear through spending cuts alone despite the fact that's mathematically impossible. That those spending cuts which would greatly harm others are an ideal means of preserving ones own opulence is a great example of the final point. And, of course, the reason I brought this up is that repeatedly dismissing murders motivated by ones violent and extreme rhetoric is a great example of reckless disregard for others safety as well as as indifference and/or rationalizing the harm one does others for personal gain.
In short, I've begun to think that sociopathy can be INDUCED, en masse; that's essentially what terrorist training camps do, what the ACTUAL Hitler Youth did, and why their products slaughter innocent children or anyone else their ideology dictates without hesitation. That's not a phenomenon exclusive to the left or right; as I noted elsewhere, most terrorist groups have almost purely far left ideology, but pursuing it through murder is as appalling and unacceptable as it is counterproductive.
"Fox News says" and the lead off example is something someone says who is only being interviewed as a guest of the show. Wow does the left blame every news shows for what their guest say or is only that Fox News makes liberals to stupid to see the difference? The entire article amounts to nothing more than childish whining because people on right won't just gleeful accept having mass murder be labeled as one of them. These are the same left wing hate mongers who twisted themselves into knots trying to argue the nutcase who shot the congresswoman in Arizona was a rightwing extremist when the opposite was closer to the truth. I assume they got their panties in a knot over Fox claiming that isn't true ass well. I must be tough being a liberal and having to walk around with knotted up panties because their is a news organization reporting things you would rather not be heard. Maybe we should shut them down then gather all the books they wrote and burn them.
And since when did technology journals become the mout5h pieces for extremist left wing dribble?
And since when did technology journals become the mout5h pieces for extremist left wing dribble?
It's REALLY tough being a liberal when you can be murdered by people who openly proclaim themselves "true conservatives" and have had party membership reflecting it, only to have their fellow conservatives insist the murderer was a liberal or his victims were Nazis, and how DARE I object to people being murdered down the street from me just because they share my politics? Yeah, my heart really bleeds for you, man; had I been sixty miles further west last week it might have LITERALLY bled FOR YOU. Guess poor misunderstood Anders Breivik was right about how persecuted conservatives are.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist).
- 26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM
1363 Views
Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM*
- 26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM
409 Views
How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM*
- 26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM
408 Views
That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist.
- 26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM
517 Views
Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist
- 26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM
470 Views
I'm not.
- 26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM
641 Views
funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left
- 26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM
518 Views
No one called him "American right"
- 26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM
458 Views
so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM*
- 26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM
491 Views
They don't have to claim him.
- 26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM
455 Views
Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man
- 26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM
467 Views
I neither care nor am responsible for US media
- 26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM
449 Views
this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed?
- 26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM
430 Views
Yes but I didn't reply to the main article, but to Trzaska being ignorant
- 26/07/2011 04:36:52 PM
522 Views
Just to be clear
- 26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM
532 Views
just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist
- 26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM
448 Views
People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views.
- 26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM
543 Views
sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality
- 26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM
551 Views
I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement,
- 26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM
480 Views
See, the thing with an extremist, is that he doesn't have all that much in common with
- 26/07/2011 03:59:05 PM
484 Views
A right OR left wing extremist is just that; that's why your mouthpieces are so defensive.
- 26/07/2011 10:40:46 PM
602 Views
I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy
- 26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM
436 Views
He murders kids because they're liberal, you spit on their graves: You both belong in an asylum.
- 26/07/2011 07:54:08 AM
483 Views
Aaaaaaand you are back on my ignore list. Thanks for confirming my original instincts were right. *NM*
- 26/07/2011 11:18:25 AM
305 Views
He says (through his lawyer) ...
- 26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM
497 Views
funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied
- 26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM
439 Views
I have no idea what you're talking about.
- 26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM
454 Views
Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist
- 26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM
445 Views
Now I see what you mean.
- 26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM
433 Views
I would argue that his actions were tied to his beliefs on the specific issue of immigration
- 26/07/2011 06:11:23 PM
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And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste
- 26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM
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I'm seriously wondering if attacking the victims here will be the tipping point for US fascists.
- 26/07/2011 10:30:33 AM
416 Views
why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid?
- 26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM
504 Views
+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona.....
- 26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM
430 Views
Really? (+edit)
- 26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM
395 Views
no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right
- 26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM
563 Views
...
- 26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM
571 Views
if the term doesn't fit in the US then it makes no sense for US media to use the term here
- 26/07/2011 08:14:40 PM
382 Views
This was my point.
- 26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM
408 Views
so are you pulling crap out of thin air now?
- 26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM
511 Views
You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back.
- 26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM
359 Views
I may be frustrated but I think it is justified
- 27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM
404 Views
I'm sorry if my comment was stupid.
- 27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM
441 Views
I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you
- 27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM
435 Views
It's the liberals fault they were murdered; I get that that's the American far right argument.
- 26/07/2011 11:09:25 PM
521 Views
BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right?
- 26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM
403 Views
Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said?
- 27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM
484 Views
He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism.
- 27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM
481 Views
Wow. Let's just make this about us, why don't we?
- 26/07/2011 04:19:06 PM
568 Views
oh please the left is one trying to make about the right
- 26/07/2011 04:36:39 PM
539 Views
I'm referring to all Americans (both sides) who are currently fighting this out.
- 26/07/2011 04:44:45 PM
408 Views
I agree 100% that this issue shouldn't be used in American politics
- 26/07/2011 06:33:48 PM
503 Views
To Hell with them; even the normally indulgent American public will put them in a rubber room soon.
- 26/07/2011 11:36:13 PM
462 Views
You people all need to get a grip
- 26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM
470 Views
+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM*
- 26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM
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No, you do not agree with what Wibble said. Your +1 makes zero sense. *NM*
- 26/07/2011 11:11:31 PM
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That's what I'm trying to do.
- 26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM
482 Views
You are too close to this just now.
- 26/07/2011 10:17:22 PM
445 Views
Probably,but that it happened in perhaps the safest most liberal place on Earth makes it inescapable
- 27/07/2011 12:26:45 AM
499 Views
Joel you are so full of shit
- 26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM
407 Views
Read Joel's post title again, will you?
- 26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM
531 Views
Oh please, Legolas
- 26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM
473 Views
- 26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM
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Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM*
- 26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM
474 Views
Bullshit
- 27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM
475 Views
For the record, I've always supported guns for self defense (and hunting, and liberty from tyranny).
- 27/07/2011 10:52:02 AM
499 Views
While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to
- 27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM
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I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions.
- 27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM
473 Views
No trolling? And you include the first reply in that?
- 27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM
499 Views
so is the troll the person who makes the point or is the people who refuse to acknowledge it
- 27/07/2011 02:41:31 PM
389 Views
Do you think trz was right to call him an ultra left wing anarchist?
- 27/07/2011 04:15:50 PM
456 Views
I assumed he was referring to me when talked about picking fights with people
- 27/07/2011 05:53:43 PM
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yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM*
- 27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM
387 Views
extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them
- 27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM
524 Views
One of us is.
- 27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM
461 Views
Anyone saying Brevik has nothing in common with the American "Right" is lying to themselves
- 26/07/2011 08:49:29 PM
462 Views
glad you could come along, someone has to represent the ignorant kool-aid drinkers
- 26/07/2011 10:29:52 PM
441 Views
I don't mind them lying to themselves,but promoting the lie incites violent persecution complexes
- 26/07/2011 11:40:48 PM
493 Views
A suggestion
- 27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM
426 Views
Maybe.
- 27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM
548 Views
But there's a problem in all that
- 27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM
613 Views
In that response, "they" etc. specifically means the talking heads and their defenders.
- 27/07/2011 02:44:25 PM
415 Views
Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand
- 27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM
442 Views
I blame nested threads.
- 27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM
530 Views
Personally, I blame your need to have the final post in every conversation
- 27/07/2011 10:27:30 PM
465 Views

*NM*