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I assumed he was referring to me when talked about picking fights with people random thoughts Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 05:53:43 PM
If he wasn't then I retract my statement, tempers have been flared over this.

I do not agree with that at all, I don't think you do and I think trz knows that half the things he has said in here are not accurate. That's what seems like trolling to us, but maybe I just don't read him right?


I have no idea what trz believes or doesn't believe. I have stated that he didn't really fit in the American right but I would never argue that he is a leftist.

I think it would be best if we could all (not just pointing at you, simply replying to you) talk about the real issues rather than attacking each other. What happened in Norway makes me want to vomit, but I actually think this thread is a good place for a discussion about what the labels really mean.


I think there is a problem with using the same labels to describe crazed extremist as we use for main stream political groups. There has been to much effort by both sides to try and define the other like that. I doubt you have much more in common with the unabomber than I do with this sicko despite the fact that he picked some thing to be crazy about that more closely align with thinking from the left. There are valid reason to be concerned that corporations have to much power in our society and saying that in no way makes one responsible for his actions.

I think in general they should avoid using political labels for lone mad dogs no matter what. With groups it gets a little harder. Then you have to ask how much the main stream group defends or rejects the group. Most people would call the KKK a far right group but main stream conservatives in no way support them and are just as eager to openly condemn them as the left is. If you looked their issues I assume I my positions would closer to to their views than yours would be on a very few minor points but on 98% we would agree and the rest I would be much closer to your position than theirs. So with the Klan I object to using the label far right because it implies that I have similar views only less extreme when I think I have nothing in common with those people and despise both their methods and their values. The tea party is a different story. Even though I disagree with them on a lot points I have no problem acknowledging that I am in the same political spectrum as they are. I wish they would calm down but when push comes to shove I agree with them a some important points.

I think trying marginalize the other side in this way is something both sides do but I do think the left is more effective at it. I also believe the media either intentionally or simply because so many of them are liberal and just think that way promote the idea that right is dangerous by being much more likely to label someone as far right than they are to label someone far left and by pointing out the extremes of the right while ignoring those on the left. Conservative have the right to object to this and to call the media out for doing it.

I also think that issues like this matter. Association plays a larger role in are thinking than we like to admit and the names we call a thing does affect how we think about. I believe the left is more aware of that the right is and that is why they have pushed for all of the PC name changing over the years and jungles are now rain forest and swamps are wet lands.

The long and short of it though that regardless of how political scientist choose to labels beliefs systems I personally object to any system that implies a similarity to my beliefs with a man whose hatred led him to kill children. I not only oppose his actions but his motives as well.
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Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist). - 26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM 1346 Views
Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM* - 26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM 394 Views
How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM* - 26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM 392 Views
That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist. - 26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM 502 Views
Well said - 26/07/2011 12:11:45 PM 414 Views
Thanks. - 26/07/2011 11:46:42 PM 444 Views
Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist - 26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM 455 Views
I'm not. - 26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM 621 Views
funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left - 26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM 503 Views
No one called him "American right" - 26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM 443 Views
so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM* - 26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM 474 Views
They don't have to claim him. - 26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM 439 Views
Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man - 26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM 451 Views
I neither care nor am responsible for US media - 26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM 434 Views
this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed? - 26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM 413 Views
Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM 515 Views
Re: Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:46:47 PM 377 Views
just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist - 26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM 432 Views
People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views. - 26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM 527 Views
sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality - 26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM 535 Views
I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement, - 26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM 464 Views
once again I was referring to the use of the term in the US - 26/07/2011 08:30:48 PM 476 Views
Precisely. - 27/07/2011 12:00:33 AM 409 Views
I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy - 26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM 421 Views
Yeah, how dare we horn in on your schtick. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:43 PM 380 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2011 08:51:23 PM 327 Views
- 26/07/2011 10:16:12 PM 415 Views
Ignorance is bliss? - 26/07/2011 11:08:53 AM 423 Views
Sometimes - 26/07/2011 08:01:27 PM 461 Views
He says (through his lawyer) ... - 26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM 481 Views
funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied - 26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 423 Views
I have no idea what you're talking about. - 26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM 441 Views
Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist - 26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM 431 Views
Now I see what you mean. - 26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM 420 Views
And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste - 26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM 472 Views
I listened to that clip last night - 26/07/2011 10:26:24 AM 487 Views
Unbefuckinglievable *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:12:03 AM 359 Views
Oh, and he was also showing what a huge hypocrite he is - 26/07/2011 12:12:20 PM 499 Views
I don't want to keep saying "wow," but what else? - 26/07/2011 04:26:32 PM 455 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 01:49:02 AM 430 Views
why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid? - 26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM 488 Views
+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona..... - 26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM 416 Views
Really? (+edit) - 26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM 380 Views
no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right - 26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM 549 Views
... - 26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM 554 Views
This was my point. - 26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM 392 Views
so are you pulling crap out of thin air now? - 26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM 497 Views
You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back. - 26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM 343 Views
I may be frustrated but I think it is justified - 27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM 389 Views
I'm sorry if my comment was stupid. - 27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM 427 Views
I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you - 27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM 420 Views
Who is "traszka"? *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:33:49 PM 396 Views
'm going to try not to be offensive here, but the way I see it - 26/07/2011 04:35:54 PM 456 Views
I don't like Fox's opinion news shows and I don't watch them - 26/07/2011 06:21:01 PM 427 Views
Gah wrong place *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:07 PM 360 Views
BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right? - 26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM 387 Views
Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said? - 27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM 467 Views
He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism. - 27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM 467 Views
Joel you truly are unhinged so I am done *NM* - 27/07/2011 01:11:43 AM 413 Views
Fair enough. - 27/07/2011 01:17:43 AM 419 Views
Pretty funny - 26/07/2011 01:47:19 PM 547 Views
The worst shooting massacre in history is not "pretty funny". - 26/07/2011 11:33:59 PM 378 Views
You people all need to get a grip - 26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM 456 Views
+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM 431 Views
Try not replying next time, then. *NM* - 26/07/2011 10:10:27 PM 410 Views
That's what I'm trying to do. - 26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM 467 Views
Joel you are so full of shit - 26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM 393 Views
Read Joel's post title again, will you? - 26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 515 Views
Oh please, Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM 458 Views
Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM 459 Views
Bullshit - 27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM 461 Views
While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to - 27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM 432 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 11:50:02 AM 408 Views
I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions. - 27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM 459 Views
No trolling? And you include the first reply in that? - 27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM 485 Views
so is the troll the person who makes the point or is the people who refuse to acknowledge it - 27/07/2011 02:41:31 PM 375 Views
Do you think trz was right to call him an ultra left wing anarchist? - 27/07/2011 04:15:50 PM 424 Views
I assumed he was referring to me when talked about picking fights with people - 27/07/2011 05:53:43 PM 450 Views
I don't know why Traska thinks that - 27/07/2011 07:37:50 PM 531 Views
yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM* - 27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM 370 Views
I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 04:00:27 PM 472 Views
Re: I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 08:09:31 PM 520 Views
extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them - 27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM 511 Views
Well - 27/07/2011 04:27:25 PM 415 Views
Joel's title and Joel's post really don't have much in common - 26/07/2011 11:52:36 PM 427 Views
Not just some guest on Fox News, also Bushs UN Ambassador. - 27/07/2011 12:32:40 AM 396 Views
One of us is. - 27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM 448 Views
maybe Legolas is right and you are to close to this *NM* - 27/07/2011 12:39:29 AM 374 Views
Wibble, but maybe. - 27/07/2011 01:15:31 AM 501 Views
not really have you seen the main board? not much action. - 26/07/2011 10:40:21 PM 401 Views
A suggestion - 27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM 410 Views
Maybe. - 27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM 535 Views
But there's a problem in all that - 27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM 598 Views
O'Reilly Shreds Media for Calling Norway Terrorist 'Christian' - 27/07/2011 05:14:30 AM 555 Views
Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand - 27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM 426 Views
I blame nested threads. - 27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM 515 Views