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That's smoke and mirrors Isaac Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM
Voter fraud of the variety prevented by solid ID standards is that sort of individual or small group fraud that is hard to investigate and prosecute, on the simple grounds that it isn't worth hundreds of hours to find half a dozen individual voters who voted fraudulently by voting twice in two precincts or similiar.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
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How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 2004 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* Palatine - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 569 Views
From what I understand ... Nate - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 1119 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 989 Views
Well. Nate - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 1121 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 610 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. Joel - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 961 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* Ray - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 705 Views
That is kind of pathetic. Joel - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 913 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account Ray - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 827 Views
I cannot speak to that. Joel - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 1035 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. Legolas - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 988 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 547 Views
Did you read your own article? Legolas - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 1036 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 1008 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... Burr - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 934 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 542 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. Burr - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 1007 Views
i suppose that would get complicated if you tried to make it nice and flexible. *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:09:13 PM 764 Views
It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow". Tom - 15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM 1084 Views
Yah, my mom brought up Jim Crow laws. It's a fair point, at least in regards to the reaction LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:22:36 PM 1023 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* Nate - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 572 Views
I'm magical? *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 635 Views
It is not a black and white issue Roland00 - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 1010 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 555 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* Roland00 - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 582 Views
that's too obvious. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 995 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit Roland00 - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 1003 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 1059 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 1093 Views
that's just what they want you to think. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 931 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 1123 Views
Actually i'm pretty sure my rabbits scratch me because they're furry bastards. *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 04:28:57 PM 562 Views
well for one thing she didn't start out by insulting people who disagree with her Ray - 16/01/2012 02:09:24 AM 983 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: jh - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 1068 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 1139 Views
You could walk. *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 553 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 1146 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 553 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 1047 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. Sareitha Sedai - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 1000 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 560 Views
Every state has its own rules Isaac - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 1041 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case Isaac - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 1065 Views
It disenfranchises the dead/illegal aliens/people who vote multiple times... MightyYT - 16/01/2012 02:01:47 AM 1059 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* Palatine - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 660 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 576 Views
By that, I assume you want to know. (But probably not as interesting as you think.) Palatine - 17/01/2012 02:46:16 PM 1027 Views
I don't see how it does A Deathwatch Guard - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 1071 Views
Re: I don't see how it does Nate - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 1012 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 958 Views
Cool. I wonder if Canada has those. I should check into that. *NM* Nate - 16/01/2012 12:35:39 AM 496 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* MightyYT - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 599 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 463 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above A Deathwatch Guard - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 1038 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 576 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 1128 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. Joel - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 1060 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 1025 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? Ray - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 955 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 1190 Views
That's smoke and mirrors Isaac - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 1086 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 1021 Views
You are still ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to catch people on the current system random thoughts - 16/01/2012 03:52:42 PM 960 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article Isaac - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 1017 Views
Question for you Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 1056 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. Isaac - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 1201 Views
I tend to agree Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 949 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting Isaac - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 1065 Views
becuase they would then be limited to voting once and all of ACRON's work would be wasted *NM* Ray - 16/01/2012 01:46:06 AM 656 Views
Not to mention it might stop some of those pesky dead people that keep showing up. Every Year. *NM* dart_board - 16/01/2012 02:44:42 PM 656 Views
Hey now. Zombies are people too, and deserve to have their opinions noted. *NM* Nate - 17/01/2012 10:23:15 PM 566 Views
I guess you havn't been watching the Walking Dead *NM* random thoughts - 18/01/2012 07:09:34 PM 577 Views
Nate's one of those Farmer Hershel types. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 18/01/2012 10:02:48 PM 582 Views
Just a guess but I don't think things will end well for the farmer *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2012 07:09:45 PM 616 Views
If provided gratis, it does not; otherwise, it is a poll tax (illegal under federal law.) Joel - 16/01/2012 02:39:40 AM 920 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. Amyrlin - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 1055 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? dart_board - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 1051 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* Amyrlin - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 574 Views
I do think that fraud/raising barriers to vote need to be weighed against each other. Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:20:23 PM 1015 Views
I remember the Bush/Gore Fiasco back in 2000, Florida and Democrats pissed off the overseas military MightyYT - 16/01/2012 06:56:39 PM 1000 Views
I'm not reading the article but... callandor1000 - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 979 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 951 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. Sareitha Sedai - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 924 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 950 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. callandor1000 - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 1174 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. Sareitha Sedai - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 1084 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. callandor1000 - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1266 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area callandor1000 - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 1040 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? Vivien - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 1134 Views
Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM* Isaac - 18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM 571 Views
I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM* Vivien - 18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM 566 Views
imo, fervor has no place in political discussion LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM 991 Views
And yet, it finds its way or it's not politics. Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:28:08 PM 985 Views
That doesn't mean that's the best or most productive discussion manner LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM 1127 Views
Strong feelings on a topic don't have to translate to fervent discussion, all caps style. Vivien - 18/01/2012 08:50:45 PM 1070 Views
What? Amyrlin - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 893 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1143 Views
the problem with that last point is... LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 985 Views
Yes. Vivien - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 1156 Views
That example is a lot different to what I'm talking about though. LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 10:51:21 PM 1019 Views
It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently. Vivien - 18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM 1233 Views
but my point is that it wasn't the government making those calls LadyLorraine - 19/01/2012 12:09:17 AM 955 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. Amyrlin - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 905 Views
What's your real question? Palatine - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 970 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 1051 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. Palatine - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 1186 Views
I've had enough, looking forward to insulting everyone again in a couple months or so. Vivien - 19/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1068 Views
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