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Question for you Sareitha Sedai Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM
For the record I do serve as a poll judge and happen to be rather friendly with just about everyone who works for my local board of elections, and can name off the top of my head every single form of acceptable ID allowed under Ohio law... so be very careful implying ignorance on my part.

Your 5-year old article with obvious bias and tilt from the hack rag that is the NY Times is not, in my opinion, worth the time to read, though I have in fact read it before. It's been cited before, it's been criticized and dissected before. It also predates many of the 2008 election scandals and fraud that tend to be considered pivotal reasons why voter fraud should be a concern. Every aspect of that article is distortive, that questionable cases were prosecuted is not something that should be swept under the rug but is not relevant to what the laws should be and is raised purely to evoke sympathy or criticize the laws where a lack of reasonable arguments against them exist. Even the one cited, what bullshit is that, a felon accidentally voted? By the way, Prude was originally in jail for forgery, so it is not surprising someone might take a skeptical view of a forger attempting to vote, that's not usually a crime committed by people too ignorant to know well-know things like felons typically not being able to vote. Further, she was not a random citizen, she was a campaign volunteer actively involved in calling people to get them signed up for absentee ballots... do you seriously think she has an excuse for not knowing that she had no business voting absentee, especially considering she had a paid position with a get-out-the-vote group?

Now, under current law, since I defend current law and object to widening it - and would point out that citing low voter fraud under the current law even if true wouldn't be pertinent to voter fraud under possible new less restrictive laws - I can not picture a set of circumstances where a reasonable person could be denied the opportunity to vote. Those who forget their ID and have to go back for it but don't have the time do not interest me, for one thing, nobody has much legitimate cause walking let alone driving around without an ID, the latter of which is generally illegal and the former exhibits a great lack of common sense... a trait I generally prefer in voters. Even if they can't do that, most states (probably all but definitely mine) allow a person to vote on the spot provisionally then have ten day to go to the board of elections to prove they are who they claimed. So for that tiny fraction of people who don't have any of the various, often free, forms of ID, they can just swing by the BoE and provide it anytime in the next week and validate their vote. Any implication that our current laws are not fair is in my opinion suspect, implying lack of understanding or ulterior motive.


(Or maybe it's two)...I agree with you that our (OH's) current laws are not unfair. Do you support further restricting them to require a photo ID specifically though? Is there a photo ID that would be acceptable for voting purposes that OH residents can obtain for free? My personal opinion is that both fraud and barriers to vote are important to consider. I'd be more readily in favor of photo ID requirements (which seem like such a no-brainer in this day and age) if, as Joel says, there were state-issued photo IDs conveniently available and at no cost.

I have a more general question about absentee ballots and how those figure into these types of conversations, but I think I'll post that in the main thread.
If you are from Betelgeuse, please have one of your Earth friends read what I've written before you respond. Or try concentrating harder.

"The trophy problem has become extreme."
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How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 1954 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 547 Views
From what I understand ... - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 1065 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 944 Views
Well. - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 1071 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 588 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 913 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 686 Views
That is kind of pathetic. - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 863 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 781 Views
I cannot speak to that. - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 975 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 946 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 526 Views
Did you read your own article? - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 995 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 958 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 887 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 524 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 958 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 546 Views
I'm magical? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 616 Views
It is not a black and white issue - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 966 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 536 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 562 Views
that's too obvious. - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 946 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 957 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 1002 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 1027 Views
that's just what they want you to think. - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 888 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 1083 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 1020 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 1099 Views
You could walk. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 535 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 1105 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 535 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 1000 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 952 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 539 Views
Every state has its own rules - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 995 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 1010 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 637 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 552 Views
I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 1020 Views
Re: I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 959 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 910 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 569 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 443 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 985 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 557 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 1077 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 1017 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 979 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 906 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 1142 Views
That's smoke and mirrors - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 1033 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 971 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 970 Views
Question for you - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 1011 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 1149 Views
I tend to agree - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 908 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 1014 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 1015 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 1001 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 557 Views
I'm not reading the article but... - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 940 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 901 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 875 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 902 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 1135 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 1042 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1226 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 993 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 1082 Views
Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM* - 18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM 554 Views
I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM* - 18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM 542 Views
imo, fervor has no place in political discussion - 18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM 946 Views
What? - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 855 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1094 Views
the problem with that last point is... - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 939 Views
Yes. - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 1104 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 860 Views
What's your real question? - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 903 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 998 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 1147 Views

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