(Or maybe it's two)...I agree with you that our (OH's) current laws are not unfair. Do you support further restricting them to require a photo ID specifically though? Is there a photo ID that would be acceptable for voting purposes that OH residents can obtain for free? My personal opinion is that both fraud and barriers to vote are important to consider. I'd be more readily in favor of photo ID requirements (which seem like such a no-brainer in this day and age) if, as Joel says, there were state-issued photo IDs conveniently available and at no cost.
Free gets a bit tricky, the BMV charges $8.50 processing last I checked for an Ohio ID card, and even absentee you're paying postage or gas to get the form and/or send it in. Ohio incidentally has often been said to have the most or one of the most restrictive voting requirements which is while you'll hear me use hedge words when referring to other states, and HB 194 is seeking to restrict it Driver's License, State ID Card, passport, or Military ID, but has some fairly heavy opposition even from Husted. The final form of the bill or a successor could render much of what I said invalid. HEre however is the current acceptable ID
[From Ohio SecState]
A current and valid photo identification card issued by the State of Ohio or the United States government; or
A military identification ("military ID" ); or
An original or copy of a current utility bill; or
An original or copy of a current bank statement; or
An original or copy of a current government check; or
An original or copy of a current paycheck; or
An original or copy of a current other government document, other than a voter registration acknowledgement notification mailed by the board of elections, that shows the voter’s name and current address.[end]
So while I don't consider the $8.50 fee legitimately prohibitive, a person can forgo even that by presenting one of those above. Theoretically a person on welfare or disability who can not afford $8.50 is likely to have a government check. It would be my preference to go strictly photo ID and simply make the State ID available free of charge, currently though while I am not familiar with any absolutely free photo ID in Ohio, but those various forms - utility, bank, gov't, are typically free.
I have a more general question about absentee ballots and how those figure into these types of conversations, but I think I'll post that in the main thread.
It will be very interesting with absentee ballots for Ohio in 2012, last I checked deal had been cut to mail out everyone a absentee voter request form.
I know there are non-photo options currently accepted. I didn't know we were considered one of the most restrictive in terms of ID requirements though. That's interesting to me because it seems like there are a lot of options encompassing a fairly broad range.
Right, $8.50 for the state ID. I guess there could be a charge to obtain a copy of any supporting documentation you might need if you don't already have your birth certificate lying around or something like that, but I think I'd be okay with it as long as there were no charge for the ID itself.
Oooh, that's right, I read about the absentee mailings this year. I forgot about that. My husband and I always remember on election day when we're going to vote before work that we meant to get absentee ballots to avoid having to get up so early
Maybe this will be the year we do it. Are OH absentee ballots treated like provisional ballots? Are they only counted in certain cases or anything like that?
If you are from Betelgeuse, please have one of your Earth friends read what I've written before you respond. Or try concentrating harder.
"The trophy problem has become extreme."
"The trophy problem has become extreme."
How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community?
- 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM
2004 Views
From what I understand ...
- 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM
1117 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things
- 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM
989 Views
Well.
- 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM
1121 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you.
- 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM
961 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM*
- 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM
705 Views
That is kind of pathetic.
- 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM
912 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is.
- 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM
988 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM*
- 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM
547 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate...
- 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM
934 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM*
- 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM
542 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID.
- 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM
1007 Views
i suppose that would get complicated if you tried to make it nice and flexible. *NM*
- 15/01/2012 06:09:13 PM
764 Views
It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow".
- 15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM
1083 Views
Yah, my mom brought up Jim Crow laws. It's a fair point, at least in regards to the reaction
- 15/01/2012 06:22:36 PM
1023 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM*
- 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM
572 Views
It is not a black and white issue
- 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM
1010 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM
555 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM*
- 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM
582 Views
that's too obvious.
- 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM
994 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit
- 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM
1002 Views
have you ever had a rabbit?
- 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM
1058 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit
- 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM
1093 Views
that's just what they want you to think.
- 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM
930 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical
- 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM
1122 Views
- 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM
1122 Views
Actually i'm pretty sure my rabbits scratch me because they're furry bastards. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 04:28:57 PM
562 Views
well for one thing she didn't start out by insulting people who disagree with her
- 16/01/2012 02:09:24 AM
982 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this:
- 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM
1068 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina.
- 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM
1139 Views
You could walk. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM
553 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away
- 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM
1145 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM*
- 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM
553 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless.
- 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM
1047 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence.
- 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM
999 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case
- 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM
1063 Views
It disenfranchises the dead/illegal aliens/people who vote multiple times...
- 16/01/2012 02:01:47 AM
1059 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM*
- 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM
660 Views
that would be interesting. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM
576 Views
By that, I assume you want to know. (But probably not as interesting as you think.)
- 17/01/2012 02:46:16 PM
1027 Views
I don't see how it does
- 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM
1071 Views
Re: I don't see how it does
- 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM
1011 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV
- 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM
958 Views
Cool. I wonder if Canada has those. I should check into that. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 12:35:39 AM
496 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM
599 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM*
- 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM
463 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution
- 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM
1127 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem
- 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM
1023 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem?
- 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM
955 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted
- 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM
1190 Views
That's smoke and mirrors
- 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM
1084 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point
- 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM
1020 Views
You are still ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to catch people on the current system
- 16/01/2012 03:52:42 PM
958 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article
- 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM
1017 Views
Question for you
- 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM
1056 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need.
- 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM
1201 Views
I tend to agree
- 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM
949 Views
becuase they would then be limited to voting once and all of ACRON's work would be wasted *NM*
- 16/01/2012 01:46:06 AM
656 Views
Not to mention it might stop some of those pesky dead people that keep showing up. Every Year. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 02:44:42 PM
656 Views
Hey now. Zombies are people too, and deserve to have their opinions noted. *NM*
- 17/01/2012 10:23:15 PM
566 Views
I guess you havn't been watching the Walking Dead *NM*
- 18/01/2012 07:09:34 PM
577 Views
Nate's one of those Farmer Hershel types. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 10:02:48 PM
582 Views
Just a guess but I don't think things will end well for the farmer *NM*
- 19/01/2012 07:09:45 PM
616 Views
If provided gratis, it does not; otherwise, it is a poll tax (illegal under federal law.)
- 16/01/2012 02:39:40 AM
920 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community?
- 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM
1051 Views
I do think that fraud/raising barriers to vote need to be weighed against each other.
- 16/01/2012 06:20:23 PM
1014 Views
I remember the Bush/Gore Fiasco back in 2000, Florida and Democrats pissed off the overseas military
- 16/01/2012 06:56:39 PM
999 Views
I'm not reading the article but...
- 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM
979 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area
- 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM
951 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot.
- 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM
924 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot.
- 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM
1174 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares?
- 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM
1133 Views
Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM*
- 18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM
571 Views
I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM*
- 18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM
566 Views
imo, fervor has no place in political discussion
- 18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM
990 Views
And yet, it finds its way or it's not politics.
- 18/01/2012 06:28:08 PM
985 Views
That doesn't mean that's the best or most productive discussion manner
- 18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM
1127 Views
- 18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM
1127 Views
Strong feelings on a topic don't have to translate to fervent discussion, all caps style.
- 18/01/2012 08:50:45 PM
1069 Views
What?
- 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM
893 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before?
- 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM
1142 Views
the problem with that last point is...
- 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM
984 Views
Yes.
- 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM
1156 Views
That example is a lot different to what I'm talking about though.
- 18/01/2012 10:51:21 PM
1018 Views
It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently.
- 18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM
1233 Views
What's your real question?
- 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM
969 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question.
- 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM
1051 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised.
- 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM
1186 Views
I've had enough, looking forward to insulting everyone again in a couple months or so.
- 19/01/2012 06:06:19 PM
1067 Views
