Active Users:461 Time:18/09/2025 04:28:43 AM
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* Ray Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM
I don't see why a majority of people wouldn't have some form of photo ID anyways. I suppose there are people who would vote that now won't because they're going to have to spend the time to go get a photo ID, but I don't know how sizable that portion of people is anyways. Most people I've met that are that apathetic about voting are likely to not go if their voting center is too far away. Frankly, I'm not sure I even care about the vote of someone who cares that little. It's unlikely they're going to make an educated and thought out decision anyways. Don't get me wrong, they should still be ALLOWED to vote and no one should take that from them....I'm just not too fussed about the loss of their opinion.

I don't know any nation-wide statistics, but there was a study done in Texas that showed that one million of the state's 13.5 million registered voters did not have photo ID. If you extrapolated that nation-wide (this is rough mental math), you'd have about 20 million registered voters without photo ID in the United States. That's a lot of voters.

And yes, maybe you don't really care what they think if they're too lazy to go get photo ID, and I don't think you'd be alone in that line of thought, but it's still true that this portion of the population is under-represented partially as a result of such laws. So the question is, do you want your government to be fully representative of the interests of all its citizens, or only of the ones who have the time and energy and drive to be involved?

I'm not even American, so I can't answer that question. But it seems a little iffy to me when laws like this are passed by people who know damn well what the results will be ... and by complete coincidence, such laws are usually supported by the party that poor people vote for less often, and opposed by the party that poor people vote for more often. I personally feel that effort should be made to give everyone the best chance at voting, but I definitely acknowledge that a compelling argument can be made the other way, in the vein that you're talking about.

In the 6-3 ruling for the state of IN that found voter ID laws constitutional, the majority explicitly said they knew it only passed because some legislators knew it would give their party an advantage, but that it did not matter because the states other listed justifications for the law were neutral. Basically, they recognized the Trojan Horse as such, then proceeded to wave it through the city gate. :[

All that said, requiring a photo ID would reduce the risk and probably the reality of voter fraud, so as long as it is free I support it. Most places already required photo ID of people who did not have the voter registration cards mailed out free of charge months before the election, but allowed those who had the card to vote without producing ID. Anyone so inclined could simply find out when the cards would be mailed out, swipe them from mailboxes, and vote as many times as they chose. Worse, since the only provision against fraud was basically just poll workers checking their roles to verify people were registered in that district, then having them sign next to their name, each of the people whose cards were stolen would find, when they arrived at the polls, that they "already voted" and therefore could not cast a ballot.

Ultimately, it is not unreasonable to make voting incumbent on proving a person is who they claim to be, provided it it not a poll tax.
Reply to message
How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 1942 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 542 Views
From what I understand ... - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 1052 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 932 Views
Well. - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 1064 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 581 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 903 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 680 Views
That is kind of pathetic. - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 850 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 772 Views
I cannot speak to that. - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 960 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 938 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 520 Views
Did you read your own article? - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 983 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 947 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 876 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 519 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 947 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 540 Views
I'm magical? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 611 Views
It is not a black and white issue - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 955 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 529 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 557 Views
that's too obvious. - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 934 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 945 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 991 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 1009 Views
that's just what they want you to think. - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 881 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 1075 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 1015 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 1086 Views
You could walk. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 528 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 1093 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 531 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 991 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 942 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 536 Views
Every state has its own rules - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 980 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 996 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 634 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 547 Views
I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 1009 Views
Re: I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 945 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 898 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 564 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 439 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 975 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 552 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 1067 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 1004 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 968 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 897 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 1126 Views
That's smoke and mirrors - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 1025 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 961 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 958 Views
Question for you - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 999 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 1139 Views
I tend to agree - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 897 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 991 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 1007 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 992 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 553 Views
I'm not reading the article but... - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 931 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 876 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 862 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 892 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 1127 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 1028 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1216 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 978 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 1073 Views
Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM* - 18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM 549 Views
I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM* - 18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM 539 Views
imo, fervor has no place in political discussion - 18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM 935 Views
What? - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 847 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1083 Views
the problem with that last point is... - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 926 Views
Yes. - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 1097 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 848 Views
What's your real question? - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 894 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 990 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 1135 Views

Reply to Message