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That doesn't mean that's the best or most productive discussion manner LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM
It's what everyone always does, so it MUST be the best way to discuss the issue! WITH FERVOR!!

ly affects.


What is a decrease in representation if not corruption? I believe limiting representation, especially if those in power can put up barriers to make it more difficult or intimidating to vote for those that they least want voting- this is the greatest threat to democracy.

In order to hope to attempt to justify increased voter id obstacles, you would really have to have prove that voter fraud is taking place (not imaginary possible voter fraud) and that the stricter voter id regulations would stop it or at least minimize it. This is not the case.

A good part of this discussion has been on the veracity of voter fraud claims. I'm not trying to argue this with you; I am just pointing out that it's not necessarily a right/wrong issue. There are multiple factors to consider. And, thus, I do not feel that heated emotions are conducive to the discussion.
Still Empress of the Poofy Purple Pillow Pile Palace!!
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How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 1954 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* Palatine - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 547 Views
From what I understand ... Nate - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 1065 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 944 Views
Well. Nate - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 1071 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 588 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. Joel - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 913 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* Ray - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 686 Views
That is kind of pathetic. Joel - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 863 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account Ray - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 781 Views
I cannot speak to that. Joel - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 975 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. Legolas - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 946 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 526 Views
Did you read your own article? Legolas - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 995 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 958 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... Burr - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 887 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 524 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. Burr - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 958 Views
i suppose that would get complicated if you tried to make it nice and flexible. *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:09:13 PM 742 Views
It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow". Tom - 15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM 1030 Views
Yah, my mom brought up Jim Crow laws. It's a fair point, at least in regards to the reaction LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:22:36 PM 974 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* Nate - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 546 Views
I'm magical? *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 616 Views
It is not a black and white issue Roland00 - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 966 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 536 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* Roland00 - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 562 Views
that's too obvious. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 946 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit Roland00 - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 957 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 1002 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 1027 Views
that's just what they want you to think. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 888 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 1083 Views
Actually i'm pretty sure my rabbits scratch me because they're furry bastards. *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 04:28:57 PM 546 Views
well for one thing she didn't start out by insulting people who disagree with her Ray - 16/01/2012 02:09:24 AM 933 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: jh - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 1020 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 1099 Views
You could walk. *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 535 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 1105 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 536 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 1000 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. Sareitha Sedai - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 952 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 539 Views
Every state has its own rules Isaac - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 995 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case Isaac - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 1010 Views
It disenfranchises the dead/illegal aliens/people who vote multiple times... MightyYT - 16/01/2012 02:01:47 AM 998 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* Palatine - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 637 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 552 Views
By that, I assume you want to know. (But probably not as interesting as you think.) Palatine - 17/01/2012 02:46:16 PM 977 Views
I don't see how it does A Deathwatch Guard - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 1020 Views
Re: I don't see how it does Nate - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 959 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 910 Views
Cool. I wonder if Canada has those. I should check into that. *NM* Nate - 16/01/2012 12:35:39 AM 476 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* MightyYT - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 570 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 443 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above A Deathwatch Guard - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 985 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 557 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 1077 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. Joel - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 1017 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 979 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? Ray - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 906 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 1142 Views
That's smoke and mirrors Isaac - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 1033 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 971 Views
You are still ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to catch people on the current system random thoughts - 16/01/2012 03:52:42 PM 915 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article Isaac - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 970 Views
Question for you Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 1011 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. Isaac - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 1149 Views
I tend to agree Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 908 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting Isaac - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 1014 Views
becuase they would then be limited to voting once and all of ACRON's work would be wasted *NM* Ray - 16/01/2012 01:46:06 AM 638 Views
Not to mention it might stop some of those pesky dead people that keep showing up. Every Year. *NM* dart_board - 16/01/2012 02:44:42 PM 631 Views
Hey now. Zombies are people too, and deserve to have their opinions noted. *NM* Nate - 17/01/2012 10:23:15 PM 547 Views
I guess you havn't been watching the Walking Dead *NM* random thoughts - 18/01/2012 07:09:34 PM 559 Views
Nate's one of those Farmer Hershel types. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 18/01/2012 10:02:48 PM 553 Views
Just a guess but I don't think things will end well for the farmer *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2012 07:09:45 PM 597 Views
If provided gratis, it does not; otherwise, it is a poll tax (illegal under federal law.) Joel - 16/01/2012 02:39:40 AM 876 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. Amyrlin - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 1016 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? dart_board - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 1001 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* Amyrlin - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 557 Views
I do think that fraud/raising barriers to vote need to be weighed against each other. Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:20:23 PM 975 Views
I remember the Bush/Gore Fiasco back in 2000, Florida and Democrats pissed off the overseas military MightyYT - 16/01/2012 06:56:39 PM 957 Views
I'm not reading the article but... callandor1000 - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 940 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 901 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. Sareitha Sedai - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 876 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 902 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. callandor1000 - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 1135 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. Sareitha Sedai - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 1042 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. callandor1000 - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1226 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area callandor1000 - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 993 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? Vivien - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 1082 Views
Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM* Isaac - 18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM 554 Views
I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM* Vivien - 18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM 542 Views
imo, fervor has no place in political discussion LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM 946 Views
And yet, it finds its way or it's not politics. Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:28:08 PM 939 Views
That doesn't mean that's the best or most productive discussion manner LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM 1075 Views
Strong feelings on a topic don't have to translate to fervent discussion, all caps style. Vivien - 18/01/2012 08:50:45 PM 1012 Views
What? Amyrlin - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 855 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1094 Views
the problem with that last point is... LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 939 Views
Yes. Vivien - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 1104 Views
That example is a lot different to what I'm talking about though. LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 10:51:21 PM 978 Views
It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently. Vivien - 18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM 1180 Views
but my point is that it wasn't the government making those calls LadyLorraine - 19/01/2012 12:09:17 AM 919 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. Amyrlin - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 860 Views
What's your real question? Palatine - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 903 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 998 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. Palatine - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 1147 Views
I've had enough, looking forward to insulting everyone again in a couple months or so. Vivien - 19/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1020 Views
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