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You're partially right but mostly wrong Isaac Send a noteboard - 26/07/2012 05:46:27 PM
You can make the argument that if normal people armed with guns they can stop shooters but it doesn't really work with the situation in the Colorado movie theater.


'Normal people' are actually not the majority of conceal carry owners. I know tons of them, most are serious gun enthusiasts and great shots, and at least half the ones I know are ex-military, had parents who were police or military, are spouses of cops, etc. Roughly 1 in 30 people in Ohio have concealed carry permits now, and the number has been rising sharply for the last three years, more than doubling. So don't assume had people been allowed to bring guns in to the theater it would be a decent-ish chance 1 person might have had one, think more like there's have been a 2-4% chance any given person there would have, with odds of a crowded 1-200 person showing of a movie that by R-rating mostly would have adults putting it at anywhere from 2-10 armed persons.

1) The movie theater was dark for this occurred during a movie. Furthermore it happened in the first 15 minutes of the movie so people's eyes hadn't completely adjusted to reduced lighting. Thus it would have been hard to target the shooter and just as likely to shoot someone else.


Not ideal but hardly bad shooting conditions, if you can see the person, you can shoot them. People described him in accurate detail, more than enough to draw a bead.

2) The shooter used tear gas which besides being an irritant is another vision reducer.


I really doubt most people even were effected by the tear gas, a theater is a big spot with a lot of volume, and again, if you can see him, you can shoot him, and they saw him. Quick note though, movie tear gas is not real life tear gas, about the only times it terribly fucks you up is prolonged exposure when it really starts sticking to you and your various internal bits, or when the dosage is massively concentrated. I've been tear gassed a disgusting number of times, I can't think of it ever impacting my visions worse than a bad day of allergies... which I definitely have had to put up with on gun ranges since some of those places are pollen death traps and once the dust and gunsmoke starts kicking in... yuck. I really doubt anyone who wasn't with a couple yards of the canisters got more than 'allergy level' effect, not even severe, tear gas goes right with concentration, a 10x10x10 unventilated room is going to be absolute suck if you throw a canister in, a 20x20x20 would be 1/8th the suck. One say 50 wide by 100 long by 25 high, a fairly small theater, the effects is going to 1% of that original case... except that theaters have really good ventilation. And that's not a big theater, in fact it's one that not going to have any spots in it that qualify as a hard shot with a pistol.

3) The shooter was wearing a kelvar vest thus even if someone got a lucky shot on the shooter there is a good chance he wouldn't have gone down.


Kevlar vest only protect the stuff right under it. So the gun in front of you, the hands holding it, your head, your groin, your forearm holding the gun or not, your thighs... also kevlar ain't that reliable. More, getting hit while in one, if your're not braced and ready for it, is going to feel like someone walking up to shake you hand fisted you in the gut instead. It is going to feel like a major league pitcher just bounced one of you. BEsides the fact that most people duck and flinch when being fired at, even when missed, which generally makes them shoot less, and that body amror doesn't cover you everywhere and isn't 100%, every bullet it going to feel like someone clocked you one.


This was not a simple situation, adding more guns to the situation would not have made the situation more messy not less. This is not a convenience store with good visibility.


Well it wasn't simple, but more guns would almost certainly have made things better. You're wrong, anyone saying it is wrong, and any 'expert' saying it needs to be asked 'does that include you?' and if they say yes they need firing. A crowded theater is not place for a firefight, but that only applies to hostage situations, if the bastard is gleefully shooting everyone then a firefight will almost certainly reduce casualties even if the shooter isn't killed or wounded.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Do you have strong feelings/opinions about gun control? - 25/07/2012 05:48:56 AM 1423 Views
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Re: I'm okay with guns in very limited circumstances. - 25/07/2012 01:21:36 PM 796 Views
Inevitable thread, but mostly I feel people enters this debate without knowing enough about guns - 25/07/2012 02:05:12 PM 996 Views
I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 02:47:05 PM 900 Views
Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 03:00:07 PM 807 Views
Re: - 25/07/2012 03:30:44 PM 848 Views
Okay, that makes no sense - 25/07/2012 04:32:28 PM 858 Views
Re: Re: - 25/07/2012 05:50:23 PM 885 Views
Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 10:48:46 PM 887 Views
I understand, but you probably should if time permits - 25/07/2012 03:49:49 PM 1006 Views
It is unlikely to, for a while. - 25/07/2012 10:37:30 PM 887 Views
Oh, but you have time to read Cannoli though - 26/07/2012 01:10:50 AM 819 Views
... his was shorter? - 26/07/2012 02:41:48 PM 740 Views
Yeah but mine had diagrams! - 26/07/2012 03:46:49 PM 818 Views
I do sometimes need pictures. - 26/07/2012 04:55:17 PM 674 Views
Re: I do sometimes need pictures. - 26/07/2012 04:57:57 PM 816 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2012 05:23:11 PM 397 Views
Where exactly did you get those numbers? - 27/07/2012 07:23:31 PM 843 Views
He's right as far as numbers go. - 27/07/2012 08:08:02 PM 875 Views
Wikipedia, the unchallenged source for acurate and complete citation - 27/07/2012 08:19:40 PM 902 Views
Sorry, I totally forgot about this post, hadn't noticed your replies. - 31/07/2012 07:42:43 PM 805 Views
I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 08:18:04 PM 797 Views
Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 09:14:34 PM 774 Views
Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 11:56:05 PM 936 Views
Norway? Scotland? - 25/07/2012 09:31:49 PM 779 Views
You can keep this up - 25/07/2012 09:56:28 PM 772 Views
Hi, Cannoli. - 25/07/2012 10:30:56 PM 786 Views
well it could have at least double posted the edited version - 26/07/2012 10:40:32 PM 739 Views
Most of those numbers come from inner city violence - 26/07/2012 10:40:34 PM 959 Views
Re: Hi, Cannoli. - 09/08/2012 09:07:03 PM 839 Views
The UK tightened gun laws after the Dunblane massacre. - 25/07/2012 10:58:08 PM 730 Views
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Or - 26/07/2012 03:20:12 PM 713 Views
There a lot of us with military training and some were in that theater - 26/07/2012 03:43:52 PM 729 Views
HE was talking about normal people. - 26/07/2012 04:53:16 PM 829 Views
I think we are talking past each other - 26/07/2012 05:55:48 PM 788 Views
Possibly. We do do that. - 26/07/2012 06:52:58 PM 823 Views
In addition to random thoughts's points... - 26/07/2012 03:10:56 PM 751 Views
You're partially right but mostly wrong - 26/07/2012 05:46:27 PM 810 Views
Correct me if I'm wrong.... - 25/07/2012 03:53:07 PM 971 Views
You're wrong - 25/07/2012 04:37:22 PM 738 Views
Yes. - 25/07/2012 05:09:36 PM 741 Views
Yes and I am glad it's not my problem. - 25/07/2012 06:41:56 PM 881 Views
Dude, your burglary argument makes no sense - 25/07/2012 11:09:37 PM 783 Views
It makes lots of sense, actually. - 25/07/2012 11:55:59 PM 782 Views
They don't bring guns here. Huh. *NM* - 26/07/2012 12:59:15 AM 388 Views
they don't typically bring guns here either - 26/07/2012 02:01:14 AM 869 Views
That's how I understand it too but I'm dubious, many criminals are dumber than a bag of hammers - 26/07/2012 02:22:18 AM 722 Views
Ha! - 26/07/2012 12:07:20 PM 653 Views
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Sure, but you can legislate certain excessive firearms. - 26/07/2012 09:41:12 PM 816 Views
assault rifles are banned - 26/07/2012 10:51:28 PM 780 Views
Touchy - 28/07/2012 04:33:46 AM 968 Views

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