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Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents Legolas Send a noteboard - 31/07/2012 09:14:34 PM
In my original reply there's a brief bit of me discussing the US averaging 2 or 3 a year and how that compared up with other countries with smaller population like Norway, and then general stream of crime per capita, but that was the only list I could find... I did encounter your Rampage Killings list when try to relocate the one I'd quoted but it does not paste properly into Excel and individually counting them all and comparing wasn't something I was in the mood for. You'll also note the list of citations is thin and doesn't include - that I saw - any citation of some formal table or research. It may or may not be accurate, but I'm choosing to assume that the list is light on all fronts, and thus is missing non-US incidents as well, and proportionally. The list you attached is 'Americas' so it's hard to compare to Europe, but I will note that the 'Americas' list was 116 entries and Europe's was 99, and that the Americas have 900 million people in them. True, most of the rampages listed are in the US but I'd distrust data from almost anywhere south of the Rio Grande much as I would East of Berlin. My personal guess is the US does have more of these, but I think it's within some single to double digit percentage rather than some order of magnitude thing like 10x.

2 or 3 per year does seem more likely, both based on my personal impression and on the numbers that quick Wikipedia search yielded.

And yeah, people's general perception is warped by the simple fact of the US having so many more inhabitants - many European countries have just one notable mass shooting in recent history, or none, but then they may only have 5% of the American population or less. There's also a perception that the shootings, particularly those in schools, are "imported" from the US, fall-out from Columbine and all, which I suppose further distorts the impression about the numbers. Of course, tons of things are "imported" from the US to Europe that way, and it's only the bad ones that are generally acknowledged as such, as one might expect. Your guess sounds plausible enough to me.

As Nate pointed out, the non-spree murders would be a better point to focus on - the US having a homicide rate of multiple times that of most European countries, much of it with guns. But whether tighter gun control would appreciably bring down that homicide rate, is obviously a different question. You could avoid certain categories of homicides, I do think, like that shooting in Florida earlier this year - take the gun out of the equation and nobody dies there. Some other categories, not so much, and as pro-gun folks keep pointing out, a gun in the hands of the right person can occasionally save lives as well.
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Do you have strong feelings/opinions about gun control? - 25/07/2012 05:48:56 AM 1443 Views
Kind of? - 25/07/2012 05:59:39 AM 886 Views
Agreed - 25/07/2012 06:20:44 AM 737 Views
Re: Agreed - 25/07/2012 06:29:16 AM 882 Views
A lot of people are uncomfortable about homsexuality. Let's ban that too. - 25/07/2012 09:26:46 PM 873 Views
Feisty. - 25/07/2012 09:54:31 PM 976 Views
I'm pro-guns, but I don't think I have strong feelings about anything - 25/07/2012 07:36:31 AM 805 Views
I am mostly in agreement with you. - 26/07/2012 02:11:56 AM 678 Views
Fully automatic weapons are already forbidden, aren't they? - 27/07/2012 02:19:57 AM 803 Views
Pretty strong (as someone born, raised and living outside the US) - 25/07/2012 11:23:52 AM 884 Views
I'm okay with guns in very limited circumstances. - 25/07/2012 11:41:13 AM 933 Views
Re: I'm okay with guns in very limited circumstances. - 25/07/2012 01:21:36 PM 832 Views
Inevitable thread, but mostly I feel people enters this debate without knowing enough about guns - 25/07/2012 02:05:12 PM 1016 Views
I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 02:47:05 PM 922 Views
Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 03:00:07 PM 824 Views
Re: - 25/07/2012 03:30:44 PM 866 Views
Okay, that makes no sense - 25/07/2012 04:32:28 PM 877 Views
Re: Re: - 25/07/2012 05:50:23 PM 909 Views
Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 10:48:46 PM 908 Views
I understand, but you probably should if time permits - 25/07/2012 03:49:49 PM 1027 Views
It is unlikely to, for a while. - 25/07/2012 10:37:30 PM 903 Views
Oh, but you have time to read Cannoli though - 26/07/2012 01:10:50 AM 839 Views
... his was shorter? - 26/07/2012 02:41:48 PM 765 Views
Yeah but mine had diagrams! - 26/07/2012 03:46:49 PM 845 Views
I do sometimes need pictures. - 26/07/2012 04:55:17 PM 693 Views
Re: I do sometimes need pictures. - 26/07/2012 04:57:57 PM 841 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2012 05:23:11 PM 406 Views
Where exactly did you get those numbers? - 27/07/2012 07:23:31 PM 862 Views
He's right as far as numbers go. - 27/07/2012 08:08:02 PM 896 Views
Wikipedia, the unchallenged source for acurate and complete citation - 27/07/2012 08:19:40 PM 925 Views
Sorry, I totally forgot about this post, hadn't noticed your replies. - 31/07/2012 07:42:43 PM 847 Views
I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 08:18:04 PM 822 Views
Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 09:14:34 PM 796 Views
Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 11:56:05 PM 959 Views
Norway? Scotland? - 25/07/2012 09:31:49 PM 795 Views
You can keep this up - 25/07/2012 09:56:28 PM 789 Views
Hi, Cannoli. - 25/07/2012 10:30:56 PM 807 Views
well it could have at least double posted the edited version - 26/07/2012 10:40:32 PM 761 Views
Most of those numbers come from inner city violence - 26/07/2012 10:40:34 PM 977 Views
Re: Hi, Cannoli. - 09/08/2012 09:07:03 PM 864 Views
The UK tightened gun laws after the Dunblane massacre. - 25/07/2012 10:58:08 PM 748 Views
I have no problem with guns, but I agree that assault weapons shouldn't be legal for ordinary people - 25/07/2012 02:56:38 PM 872 Views
The problem with banning assualt weapons is the defention is mostly cosmetic - 25/07/2012 05:29:35 PM 769 Views
Bullshit - 26/07/2012 01:52:59 PM 913 Views
I call Bullshit on your Bullshit - 26/07/2012 02:59:09 PM 826 Views
Or - 26/07/2012 03:20:12 PM 733 Views
There a lot of us with military training and some were in that theater - 26/07/2012 03:43:52 PM 747 Views
HE was talking about normal people. - 26/07/2012 04:53:16 PM 850 Views
I think we are talking past each other - 26/07/2012 05:55:48 PM 820 Views
Possibly. We do do that. - 26/07/2012 06:52:58 PM 850 Views
In addition to random thoughts's points... - 26/07/2012 03:10:56 PM 776 Views
You're partially right but mostly wrong - 26/07/2012 05:46:27 PM 832 Views
Correct me if I'm wrong.... - 25/07/2012 03:53:07 PM 991 Views
You're wrong - 25/07/2012 04:37:22 PM 763 Views
Yes. - 25/07/2012 05:09:36 PM 760 Views
Yes and I am glad it's not my problem. - 25/07/2012 06:41:56 PM 905 Views
Dude, your burglary argument makes no sense - 25/07/2012 11:09:37 PM 800 Views
It makes lots of sense, actually. - 25/07/2012 11:55:59 PM 801 Views
They don't bring guns here. Huh. *NM* - 26/07/2012 12:59:15 AM 397 Views
they don't typically bring guns here either - 26/07/2012 02:01:14 AM 893 Views
That's how I understand it too but I'm dubious, many criminals are dumber than a bag of hammers - 26/07/2012 02:22:18 AM 746 Views
Ha! - 26/07/2012 12:07:20 PM 676 Views
One of my Marine friends became a Fort Worth cop when he got out - 26/07/2012 03:11:12 PM 862 Views
You get some wild stories - 26/07/2012 06:09:52 PM 873 Views
Like I've always said, you can't un-invent the gun - 25/07/2012 11:05:22 PM 765 Views
Agreed. It's really a lot like health care, in a way. - 26/07/2012 12:07:20 AM 879 Views
Sure, but you can legislate certain excessive firearms. - 26/07/2012 09:41:12 PM 835 Views
assault rifles are banned - 26/07/2012 10:51:28 PM 806 Views
Touchy - 28/07/2012 04:33:46 AM 987 Views

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