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I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM

I think it's a misogynistic and authoritarian faith that doesn't, at least in this Wahabi period, devote nearly enough time to introspection. But I find it incredibly irritating when Christians look down their nose at Islam and act as though their religion has always been the milquetoast post-Enlightenment faith that it is now. It's completely ignoring history and many of the atrocities that were sanctioned by the Church. I am confident that Islam will at some point have an Enlightenment and tone down.

It's also incredibly stupid to support religious profiling.

"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

This message last edited by Ghavrel on 24/05/2013 at 05:14:15 AM
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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 2894 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 897 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 815 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 869 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1382 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. Hieshyn - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1479 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 819 Views
FALSE! Dannymac - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1497 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1442 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1673 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1468 Views
...I can think of a rather larger difference. Starts with J and ends with S. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/05/2013 11:54:28 PM 903 Views
Yeah, but not really, both religions acknowledge his existence, but differ on his role. HyogaRott - 29/05/2013 06:00:03 PM 1461 Views
Net result: All of God's children can enter into Heaven. Hieshyn - 30/05/2013 05:26:20 PM 1678 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1759 Views
Ok....and? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1322 Views
You asked for an example, I gave one. I'm not here to argue with you. *NM* Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 02:57:27 AM 843 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 861 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1405 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 901 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1450 Views
LOL. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1383 Views
Violence.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1425 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1251 Views
You are something... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1317 Views
We've gone from "Where does Christianity call for violence?" to "not all violence is bad." *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:09:30 PM 890 Views
To be fair, that is a good journey to make. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:51:17 AM 1359 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 876 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1322 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1397 Views
Yes. nossy - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1326 Views
Re: Yes. Isaac - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1379 Views
Congratulations; you now understand why (or one reason) my posts tend to run long. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:53:24 AM 1600 Views
You know better than that. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1382 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion Isaac - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1468 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 805 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way Isaac - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1339 Views
... ? *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 850 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* Isaac - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 798 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. Cannoli - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1367 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry snoopcester - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1261 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1442 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. Nebhead - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1376 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1389 Views
Your argument is logically flawed Tom - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1466 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1484 Views
No, it actaully does not. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1447 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up Nighthawk - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1285 Views
Exactly HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1379 Views
Couple of things nossy - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1712 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1539 Views
Well, "consistent" doesn't mean "never says things HyogaRott doesn't support." nossy - 23/05/2013 09:46:51 PM 1332 Views
There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM 1369 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1398 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... Isaac - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1392 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1416 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1265 Views
That's a shame. Legolas - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1213 Views
Re: That's a shame. Isaac - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1284 Views
Re: That's a shame. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1227 Views
Sure, I'll bite. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1409 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1316 Views
I hope you like black and white. nossy - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1253 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1327 Views
I think I must have confused you. nossy - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1230 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1303 Views
Not really HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1335 Views
Yawn. Bored now. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1258 Views
whatever *NM* HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 740 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? Joel - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1583 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. Stephen - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1447 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here Tom - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1666 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1249 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. Tom - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1375 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1336 Views
Excellent post - anyone that thinks all religions are the same is a complete moron. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:32:26 AM 1489 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1493 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* ironclad - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 750 Views
I agree. *NM* Stephen - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 808 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1441 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1327 Views
The first step on the road to recovery is aknowledging your responsibility for where you are and do HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:22:42 PM 1309 Views
Oh, so its our fault... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1319 Views
It's always our fault *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 939 Views
In general, I agree nossy - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1480 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? Legolas - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1331 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 863 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1409 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1244 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1467 Views
Exactly. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1374 Views
Hyperbole? nossy - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1212 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1486 Views
No, I really don't think so. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1283 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1263 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. Legolas - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1421 Views
It's accurate. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 832 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. nossy - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1319 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1430 Views
Hm nossy - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1385 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1411 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1358 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 809 Views
No ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1405 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1359 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1330 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 859 Views
I already knew ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1293 Views
Just about every group has historically oppressed and BEEN oppressed at some time. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:00:54 AM 1416 Views
No. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1316 Views
Oh, I don't think he's talking about past "colonialism" only. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:18:11 AM 1333 Views
Possibly. Some people do, to be sure, and there is some truth in that view. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:27:36 AM 1228 Views
What a load of bullshit. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1321 Views
I don't think you can reasonably claim to separate Salafi thought from the geopolitics of the time. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:23:03 PM 1347 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1464 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers random thoughts - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1448 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. Legolas - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1287 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1405 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* Legolas - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 792 Views
No, it had a bunch of opportunistic brown folks systematically dismantling it for centuries. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:43:00 AM 1340 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1337 Views
Well yes. nossy - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1293 Views
I would prefer to say that random thoughts - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1492 Views
Of course you would. nossy - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1407 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1485 Views
Ok. nossy - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1487 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1709 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1544 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. snoopcester - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1409 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? ßelals Girl - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1386 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 846 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 784 Views
Statistically snoopcester - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1461 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1450 Views
Hardly any snoopcester - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1569 Views
Your solution is profiling...because it's time to *stop* thinking all folks are the same? *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 02:36:32 PM 754 Views
I don't think we've ever encouraged people to think all folks are the same Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:29:54 PM 1263 Views
"Perhaps it's time to stop thinking all folks are the same?" ~A2k Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 07:49:12 PM 1260 Views
I think he's pointing to the encuragement of willful blindedness with that remark Isaac - 23/05/2013 08:15:55 PM 1301 Views
I think probably not. nossy - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1353 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 771 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 764 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 758 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1277 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 804 Views
Yes, he did. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1322 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 806 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1245 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. nossy - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1377 Views
You mean like this? Larry - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1444 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid random thoughts - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1268 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 797 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such Larry - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1353 Views
Yes it does. Anonymous2000 - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1349 Views
*sigh* Larry - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1230 Views
I think asking most Americans for recognition of a non-binary political paradigm is a bit much. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:16:30 AM 811 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1249 Views
no but they do tell a story random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1192 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1370 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* Stephen - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 802 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1543 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? dart_board - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 2072 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1423 Views
Just as a little aside Tom - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1292 Views
Ever helpful. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1490 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 2049 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1451 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 2022 Views
I'm having warm feelings. nossy - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1431 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. dart_board - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1857 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " Joel - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1676 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* Dan - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 1072 Views
How much did you miss it, really? Joel - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1371 Views
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