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Of course you would. nossy Send a noteboard - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM

View original postIt is the natural distilation of a silly argumnet.

But it isn't a silly argument at all. We are the result of our history, and we are generally exceptionally proud of that. Trying to pretend it doesn't exist when it doesn't work for us is a lie.

The most important point is that nobody is claiming history absolves a criminal of the crime; that point is separate from the point the OP raised - that it is acceptable to decide people may be criminals before they even so much as steal a candy-bar.

If you disagree with any particular point I've made, please single it out and explain it to me. I'm afraid I just don't get the "yes, let's racially profile people; sounds fair" argument. If I'm wrong in saying that is exactly what will happen if you try to profile based on religion, someone also needs to explain that to me.

This message last edited by nossy on 27/05/2013 at 10:25:49 AM
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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 2921 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 921 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 827 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 892 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1413 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. Hieshyn - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1514 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 841 Views
FALSE! Dannymac - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1525 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1476 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1707 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1512 Views
...I can think of a rather larger difference. Starts with J and ends with S. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/05/2013 11:54:28 PM 926 Views
Yeah, but not really, both religions acknowledge his existence, but differ on his role. HyogaRott - 29/05/2013 06:00:03 PM 1496 Views
Net result: All of God's children can enter into Heaven. Hieshyn - 30/05/2013 05:26:20 PM 1719 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1792 Views
Ok....and? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1359 Views
You asked for an example, I gave one. I'm not here to argue with you. *NM* Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 02:57:27 AM 857 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 883 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1437 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 920 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1490 Views
LOL. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1420 Views
Violence.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1452 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1292 Views
You are something... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1358 Views
We've gone from "Where does Christianity call for violence?" to "not all violence is bad." *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:09:30 PM 913 Views
To be fair, that is a good journey to make. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:51:17 AM 1408 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 888 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1354 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1428 Views
Yes. nossy - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1361 Views
Re: Yes. Isaac - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1428 Views
Congratulations; you now understand why (or one reason) my posts tend to run long. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:53:24 AM 1631 Views
You know better than that. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1423 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion Isaac - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1506 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 821 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way Isaac - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1386 Views
... ? *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 869 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* Isaac - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 816 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. Cannoli - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1402 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry snoopcester - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1288 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1471 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. Nebhead - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1413 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1424 Views
Your argument is logically flawed Tom - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1503 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1513 Views
No, it actaully does not. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1478 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up Nighthawk - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1316 Views
Exactly HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1412 Views
Couple of things nossy - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1754 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1573 Views
Well, "consistent" doesn't mean "never says things HyogaRott doesn't support." nossy - 23/05/2013 09:46:51 PM 1366 Views
There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM 1397 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1430 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... Isaac - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1425 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1445 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1298 Views
That's a shame. Legolas - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1258 Views
Re: That's a shame. Isaac - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1312 Views
Re: That's a shame. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1263 Views
Sure, I'll bite. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1450 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1347 Views
I hope you like black and white. nossy - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1278 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1358 Views
I think I must have confused you. nossy - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1261 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1338 Views
Not really HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1370 Views
Yawn. Bored now. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1292 Views
whatever *NM* HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 760 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? Joel - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1614 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. Stephen - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1480 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here Tom - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1699 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1288 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. Tom - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1392 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1365 Views
Excellent post - anyone that thinks all religions are the same is a complete moron. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:32:26 AM 1519 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1528 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* ironclad - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 762 Views
I agree. *NM* Stephen - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 831 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1471 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1368 Views
The first step on the road to recovery is aknowledging your responsibility for where you are and do HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:22:42 PM 1351 Views
Oh, so its our fault... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1359 Views
It's always our fault *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 953 Views
In general, I agree nossy - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1509 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? Legolas - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1360 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 881 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1439 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1270 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1502 Views
Exactly. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1407 Views
Hyperbole? nossy - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1257 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1529 Views
No, I really don't think so. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1324 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1299 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. Legolas - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1449 Views
It's accurate. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 847 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. nossy - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1348 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1458 Views
Hm nossy - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1430 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1437 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1383 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 825 Views
No ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1431 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1393 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1368 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 873 Views
I already knew ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1317 Views
Just about every group has historically oppressed and BEEN oppressed at some time. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:00:54 AM 1445 Views
No. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1344 Views
Oh, I don't think he's talking about past "colonialism" only. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:18:11 AM 1356 Views
Possibly. Some people do, to be sure, and there is some truth in that view. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:27:36 AM 1272 Views
What a load of bullshit. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1344 Views
I don't think you can reasonably claim to separate Salafi thought from the geopolitics of the time. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:23:03 PM 1378 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1494 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers random thoughts - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1480 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. Legolas - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1314 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1438 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* Legolas - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 799 Views
No, it had a bunch of opportunistic brown folks systematically dismantling it for centuries. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:43:00 AM 1376 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1379 Views
Well yes. nossy - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1331 Views
I would prefer to say that random thoughts - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1521 Views
Of course you would. nossy - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1435 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1516 Views
Ok. nossy - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1523 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1737 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1580 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. snoopcester - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1430 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? ßelals Girl - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1417 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 860 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 796 Views
Statistically snoopcester - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1493 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1475 Views
Hardly any snoopcester - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1598 Views
Your solution is profiling...because it's time to *stop* thinking all folks are the same? *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 02:36:32 PM 772 Views
I don't think we've ever encouraged people to think all folks are the same Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:29:54 PM 1287 Views
"Perhaps it's time to stop thinking all folks are the same?" ~A2k Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 07:49:12 PM 1294 Views
I think he's pointing to the encuragement of willful blindedness with that remark Isaac - 23/05/2013 08:15:55 PM 1343 Views
I think probably not. nossy - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1385 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 789 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 782 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 775 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1300 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 825 Views
Yes, he did. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1349 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 814 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1272 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. nossy - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1414 Views
You mean like this? Larry - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1478 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid random thoughts - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1300 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 815 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such Larry - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1382 Views
Yes it does. Anonymous2000 - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1384 Views
*sigh* Larry - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1253 Views
I think asking most Americans for recognition of a non-binary political paradigm is a bit much. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:16:30 AM 828 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1300 Views
no but they do tell a story random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1222 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1389 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* Stephen - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 816 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1570 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? dart_board - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 2096 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1454 Views
Just as a little aside Tom - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1326 Views
Ever helpful. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1521 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 2094 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1483 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 2081 Views
I'm having warm feelings. nossy - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1462 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. dart_board - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1890 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " Joel - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1709 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* Dan - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 1087 Views
How much did you miss it, really? Joel - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1409 Views
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