Active Users:331 Time:02/05/2024 10:09:21 PM
I will if you will. Joel Send a noteboard - 20/11/2009 02:55:30 PM
The Constitution, the Republic and our way of life are not at stake if we give people who were never in the United States military tribunals and short executions.

It in no way violates any of our laws, and under the Geneva Conventions we can classify terrorists as spies and shoot them outright.

I'd have to do more research, but believe it's a bit more complicated. Armed ununiformed combatants behind enemy lines can be executed as spies, yes, but as you note Mohammed was apprehended in Pakistan (i.e. not behind US lines, to the extent such concepts even exist here; this is not a war, any more than the Branch-Davidians were involved in a Second American Civil War. )

Executing accused criminals, war or otherwise, without due process violates the spirit and letter of our laws, both those unique to us and to which we have submitted under treaty (summarily and unilaterally canceling treaties isn't terribly legal either, even it were smart, hence the six month lag between announcing we were leaving the ABM treaty and actually doing so. ) Some countries execute the accused based solely on belief, with no more than perfunctory attention to facts or proving them. Coincidentally, a disproportionate number of their citizens are willing to fly jets into skyscrapers because America doesn't do that and they think we should.
As for all this "aren't we better than they are?" bullshit, frankly, I don't care.

It certainly seems that way, and almost from the start that's disturbed me more than anything Al Qaeda can dream. "The terrorists hate our freedom" well, maybe, but they can't take it: We have to give it away. And when we go to war in defense of the rule of law, then selectively follow our own laws, we've gone a long way toward doing their job for them.

You approach the same terrible trap that breeds the terrorist and/or genocidal: The view some people are so reprehensible anything done to them is justified. You're asserting, in essence, that all men are NOT created equal, NOT endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, and that, even were the preceding not so, among them are NOT life nor liberty. That does threaten the American Way, yes.

Do you really not care if we're better than them? If you genuinely believe it OK for us to do to Al Qaeda what they did to us on 911 we have a very real problem, and if that view predominates in America, the WORLD has a very real problem, because once America declares someone an enemy we have both the means and the will to do whatever we please to them without repercussion. It staggers me, really; I must, NEED, to believe you spoke in haste, because if you honestly don't care if the United States of America is any better than thugs who murder women and children because they lack the balls to fight soldiers, I can only hope you represent a VERY small minority. Though, once again, there are several Mid-Eastern countries where you'd feel right at home.

I truly do not comprehend the disconnect when people say ending terrorism is so important we must commit it. We'll wipe out Al Qaeda, Hammas, Hezbollah and all the rest--and their legacy will live on in us, as we go around slaughtering anyone we decide is "wrong" or "bad" without any regard to their rights, and call it "the war on terror" and "defense of freedom. " Maybe you don't care if we're better, but you should, because if that mindset becomes as pervasive here as in many Islamic states (which, once again, is the terrorists goal) you won't have to worry about Al Qaeda anymore: Your next door neighbors are far closer, and probably disagree with you a lot more often. Oh, and it would also incidentally make Al Qaedas accusations against us valid rather than the shameless slander they are. You want us to embrace all the lies our worst foes have spread about us, every disgusting falsehoods the Nazis, the Soviets, and the terrorists concocted about American brutality and inhumanity you want to make reality. No.

So I guess the question is whether your commitment is to freedom, or just being the most prolific murderer. The latter isn't worth fighting (much less dying) for in my book. Either way, there are plenty of countries like that in which you're welcome to live with my blessing (though the people who share your views on what is and isn't OK to do certain people may feel differently, but that's the nature of that beast: If you insist on being in a mob, try to be in the biggest one. ) There are precious few countries like this one, and plenty of people at home and abroad trying to make the US more like Iran; they don't need your help.

This, I fear, is rapidly heading in unproductive directions though. Bottom line: If they've done wrong (of which I have little doubt) prove it in court and sentence them accordingly. But when we start talking about executing people without trials we're no longer addressing what they've done (indeed, we're deliberately ignoring it as irrelevant) and instead addressing whom they ARE. This is not a country that executes people for whom they are, and I pray it never will be. The moment we reduce this to "well, it was a good idea, but he should've gone after radical Muslims instead of Jews, gypsies and gays" I lose interest, followed by the contents of my stomach.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
No need to interrogate Osama bin Laden? - 20/11/2009 12:48:27 AM 997 Views
oO uhm, what? - 20/11/2009 12:54:13 AM 482 Views
Yeah, a lot of people were fuzzy on that till this started. - 20/11/2009 09:30:39 AM 509 Views
on the other hand, we're more than willing to take them out back with a confession. - 20/11/2009 06:34:12 PM 506 Views
As it seems we will. - 24/11/2009 09:41:18 AM 485 Views
New York is now asking for $75 MILLION for the KSM trial - 20/11/2009 01:43:26 AM 437 Views
Its to salve their conscinse - 20/11/2009 01:55:08 AM 439 Views
That's exactly the problem! - 20/11/2009 01:58:37 AM 464 Views
If this trial were being held in any other country - 20/11/2009 01:56:07 AM 465 Views
It's a terrible precedent no matter how you look at it. - 20/11/2009 02:13:46 AM 493 Views
It IS a terrible precdent, hence you and others are citing it 65 years after WWII ended. - 20/11/2009 09:23:45 AM 379 Views
Spare me the bullshit. - 20/11/2009 01:57:16 PM 375 Views
I will if you will. - 20/11/2009 02:55:30 PM 465 Views
No, you won't. You never will. - 20/11/2009 06:14:30 PM 361 Views
You're putting your cart before your horse is the problem. - 23/11/2009 05:40:46 AM 462 Views
No, that's not right. You don't read very closely. - 23/11/2009 02:21:54 PM 376 Views
In this case my reading comprehension is more than adequate. - 24/11/2009 09:16:39 AM 422 Views
You don't think this is a military struggle? Wow. - 20/11/2009 02:52:26 PM 417 Views
Allow me to point out... - 20/11/2009 03:02:33 PM 398 Views
Well, Timothy McVeigh was in OUR Army. - 20/11/2009 03:55:18 PM 515 Views
That's the thing, they aren't a terrorist group - 20/11/2009 04:54:31 PM 440 Views
It would help if you would offer any argument in favour of your stance. - 20/11/2009 08:43:08 PM 385 Views
I only use the word army cause I can't think of a better one - 21/11/2009 04:32:01 AM 398 Views
Yes. "Terrorist group". - 21/11/2009 12:02:04 PM 476 Views
Yeah I guess you're right - 22/11/2009 01:34:34 AM 387 Views
Military struggles involve militaries. - 20/11/2009 03:23:14 PM 551 Views
Once again, bullshit. - 20/11/2009 06:09:31 PM 521 Views
Aaaah, I see; it's a question of who's the master, is it? - 23/11/2009 07:47:43 AM 527 Views
You're wasting your time - 23/11/2009 02:24:57 PM 423 Views
This is wrong - 20/11/2009 07:41:35 PM 422 Views
We're a long way from the shore of Tripoli. - 23/11/2009 05:59:19 AM 469 Views
Nevertheless, uniforms or a nation is not a requirement - 23/11/2009 03:09:22 PM 431 Views
Rightly or wrongly, I disagree. - 24/11/2009 08:48:25 AM 477 Views
That is bad - 21/11/2009 12:31:04 AM 410 Views
You're not going far enough, man. - 20/11/2009 11:03:08 AM 457 Views
Blah blah blah blah blah *NM* - 20/11/2009 01:57:39 PM 193 Views
I just can't imagine how they expect to get a fair trial. - 20/11/2009 03:17:28 AM 383 Views
The Code of Conduct - 20/11/2009 07:23:02 PM 488 Views
The mention of God is interesting. *NM* - 21/11/2009 05:24:14 AM 307 Views
Your little diatribe in the beginning only makes me glad... - 22/11/2009 05:32:57 AM 543 Views
I understand your "jihadist narrative" - 22/11/2009 06:36:41 PM 527 Views
enemy combatants and terrorists - 23/11/2009 08:03:25 PM 498 Views
They're not different because from the Third World, but because terrorists. - 24/11/2009 08:09:13 AM 618 Views
not every soldier in history has worn a uniform - 24/11/2009 11:00:34 PM 294 Views
One example would be Ethan Allen and his Green Mountain Boys - 25/11/2009 06:23:08 PM 469 Views
Just for fun, let's call them fundamentalist vigilantes. *NM* - 24/11/2009 11:12:09 PM 167 Views
Works for me. - 01/12/2009 09:12:29 AM 449 Views

Reply to Message