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They're not different because from the Third World, but because terrorists. Joel Send a noteboard - 24/11/2009 08:09:13 AM
I have issue with the whole concept of trying "enemy combatants."

This just doesn't make sense to me.

What I am referring to is the fact that we are trying combatants that are captured on the battlefield fighting against our troops. Go ahead, capture them. But try them in court?

Seriously? Did why try all the soldiers we caught during WWII? Did we put the rankers on trial for fighting against us? No we didn't. As a matter of fact, many of those (surviving) German and Italian and Japanese soldiers are free. Free to travel to and in the US even.

But the fighters we capture in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't treated the same way. Why? Probably because they are Third Worlders, muslims and brown. The whole concept of trying an enemy combatant is just ridiculous.

And don't even try throwing out the word "terrorist." That word is a quagmire if you ask me. There are so many definitions of that word it is beyond reason.

One group will say a terrorist is somebody who uses terror as a political tool (hmmm...sounds like the Bush/Cheney administration always talking about "the smoking gun coming in the form of a mushroom cloud" ). Another will claim it is a person who takes violent actions against "soft targets" (non-military). I can buy that. That makes the people who bomb buses and cafes terrorists. As well as the people who hijack airplanes. But that definition also catches our own military: we sure as hell blew up plenty of soft targets when we bombed the shit out of Baghdad. And that definition would also catch the Israeli Defense Force (who have bombed residential neighbourhoods all over Lebanon, not to mention all the refugee camps the IDF has bombed). But that definition doesn't make the people who bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut back in 1983 terrorists: that is a military target. As is the Pentagon; thats another legitimate military target during a war (and we are definitely at war). That definition wouldn't make that whack-job Army officer down at Fort Hood a terrorist. Some try to define a terrorist as a militant who does not belong to a national army. Well then, the Reagan Administration supported terrorists (ie: the Contras) back in the 80s, and one of the lead guys in that treason is a celebrated hero to the right wing nuts in American (talking about the terrorist supporter known as Col. Oliver North).

So terrorist is a bad word to try to use. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. And the same can be said of "insurgents." Hell, America's heroes in the Revolutionary War were frakking insurgents! And the British army sure as hell could have defined out troops (many of whom were NOT uniformed soldiers for a long time) as terrorists when they would hide behind trees sniping red-coat officers. That was a major violation at the time of the "rules of war."

I do not agree with the motives nor the methods of al-Qaeda or the Taliban, but I understand them. They are fighting an overwhelming force the only way they have. That was part of the point that the producers of Battlestar Galactica was making during the whole storyline revolving around New Caprica. And they have a very real fear that American and the rest of the West is EVIL. I don't think we are, but from their standpoint, that view is understandable. Just as I don't think bin-Laden is EVIL, I do think he is COMPLETELY WRONG. He is doing what he sees as necesarry to protect his faith and serve his god they (wrong-headed) way he believes.

This is part of why the whole idea of a "Global War on Terror" is both stupid and un-winnable. Not to mention the fact that for every single person we kill in this "war" we only recruit MORE "terrorists" from their surviving friends and families. Our "War on Terror" makes more "terrorists."

Now, for another way to show you the fallacy of the term terrorist, I direct you to an amazing op/ed piece I read a few years ago. (Sure, it is about a piece of fictional work, but I think it might make you think a bit). Follow the link below to a thread I just started on this board.

Frankly, even calling them, "terrorists" is generous:

Terrorists, as you rightly note, do what they do because they think it's the only way to resist outside domination and force their foe to the bargaining table. Not defending, just diagnosing. Yet the Mid-Eastern religious radical terrorist isn't interested in forcing negotiations he can't encourage through traditional military means; when given the choice between more bloodshed on both sides or negotiation he routinely chooses the former. Yes, there's a political element here, but that's not a rationale, it's a rationalization, like the pot dealer who claims he's "fighting The Man" because admitting he likes to get high with his friends is somewhat less noble.

We're not treating them differently than Axis soldiers because they're different soldiers, but because they aren't soldiers at all, and calling them such, impugns the name of everyone in any nation who ever put on a uniform, picked up a gun and walked out into the open to risk his life for his country, his people and his ideals. That's the problem with Ronald Reagans "freedom fighter" being George W. Bushs "terrorist" and maybe what the latter meant when he said all of his predecessors were to blame for the current situation because their softness on terrorism encouraged it (yes, he actually said that, when he was more popular than now. )

Also: Never seen Clerks; I wouldn't really even know wtf it was about if I hadn't read the Wikipedia article last night.
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No need to interrogate Osama bin Laden? - 20/11/2009 12:48:27 AM 997 Views
oO uhm, what? - 20/11/2009 12:54:13 AM 481 Views
Yeah, a lot of people were fuzzy on that till this started. - 20/11/2009 09:30:39 AM 509 Views
on the other hand, we're more than willing to take them out back with a confession. - 20/11/2009 06:34:12 PM 506 Views
As it seems we will. - 24/11/2009 09:41:18 AM 485 Views
New York is now asking for $75 MILLION for the KSM trial - 20/11/2009 01:43:26 AM 437 Views
Its to salve their conscinse - 20/11/2009 01:55:08 AM 439 Views
That's exactly the problem! - 20/11/2009 01:58:37 AM 464 Views
If this trial were being held in any other country - 20/11/2009 01:56:07 AM 465 Views
It's a terrible precedent no matter how you look at it. - 20/11/2009 02:13:46 AM 492 Views
It IS a terrible precdent, hence you and others are citing it 65 years after WWII ended. - 20/11/2009 09:23:45 AM 379 Views
Spare me the bullshit. - 20/11/2009 01:57:16 PM 375 Views
I will if you will. - 20/11/2009 02:55:30 PM 464 Views
No, you won't. You never will. - 20/11/2009 06:14:30 PM 361 Views
You're putting your cart before your horse is the problem. - 23/11/2009 05:40:46 AM 461 Views
No, that's not right. You don't read very closely. - 23/11/2009 02:21:54 PM 375 Views
In this case my reading comprehension is more than adequate. - 24/11/2009 09:16:39 AM 421 Views
You don't think this is a military struggle? Wow. - 20/11/2009 02:52:26 PM 416 Views
Allow me to point out... - 20/11/2009 03:02:33 PM 398 Views
Well, Timothy McVeigh was in OUR Army. - 20/11/2009 03:55:18 PM 515 Views
That's the thing, they aren't a terrorist group - 20/11/2009 04:54:31 PM 440 Views
It would help if you would offer any argument in favour of your stance. - 20/11/2009 08:43:08 PM 385 Views
I only use the word army cause I can't think of a better one - 21/11/2009 04:32:01 AM 398 Views
Yes. "Terrorist group". - 21/11/2009 12:02:04 PM 475 Views
Yeah I guess you're right - 22/11/2009 01:34:34 AM 386 Views
Military struggles involve militaries. - 20/11/2009 03:23:14 PM 550 Views
Once again, bullshit. - 20/11/2009 06:09:31 PM 521 Views
Aaaah, I see; it's a question of who's the master, is it? - 23/11/2009 07:47:43 AM 527 Views
You're wasting your time - 23/11/2009 02:24:57 PM 423 Views
This is wrong - 20/11/2009 07:41:35 PM 421 Views
We're a long way from the shore of Tripoli. - 23/11/2009 05:59:19 AM 469 Views
Nevertheless, uniforms or a nation is not a requirement - 23/11/2009 03:09:22 PM 431 Views
Rightly or wrongly, I disagree. - 24/11/2009 08:48:25 AM 476 Views
That is bad - 21/11/2009 12:31:04 AM 410 Views
You're not going far enough, man. - 20/11/2009 11:03:08 AM 457 Views
Blah blah blah blah blah *NM* - 20/11/2009 01:57:39 PM 192 Views
I just can't imagine how they expect to get a fair trial. - 20/11/2009 03:17:28 AM 383 Views
The Code of Conduct - 20/11/2009 07:23:02 PM 487 Views
The mention of God is interesting. *NM* - 21/11/2009 05:24:14 AM 306 Views
Your little diatribe in the beginning only makes me glad... - 22/11/2009 05:32:57 AM 542 Views
I understand your "jihadist narrative" - 22/11/2009 06:36:41 PM 527 Views
enemy combatants and terrorists - 23/11/2009 08:03:25 PM 497 Views
They're not different because from the Third World, but because terrorists. - 24/11/2009 08:09:13 AM 618 Views
not every soldier in history has worn a uniform - 24/11/2009 11:00:34 PM 293 Views
One example would be Ethan Allen and his Green Mountain Boys - 25/11/2009 06:23:08 PM 469 Views
Just for fun, let's call them fundamentalist vigilantes. *NM* - 24/11/2009 11:12:09 PM 167 Views
Works for me. - 01/12/2009 09:12:29 AM 448 Views

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