Re: Looks like you're missing one of my points too, then.
Isaac Send a noteboard - 16/03/2010 02:57:03 AM
Which is, did she falsify government records? I don't think that's a given at all, considering the legal inability of the federal government to officially record her as being married. (Not to mention that not everybody in this thread affiliated with the US armed forces agrees with you on this being a requirement, evidently...)
And really, it's not the cops that need to be vilified here, but the absurdity of discharging (honourably or not) members of the armed forces based on their sexuality when not even the slightest "it was making people uncomfortable and impeding their ability to function" argument can be made, even in cases like this when they did not in fact "tell". I see no legal reason why the police should have informed the military, but on a more informal level their doing so makes sense. The military discharging her on those grounds does not.
And really, it's not the cops that need to be vilified here, but the absurdity of discharging (honourably or not) members of the armed forces based on their sexuality when not even the slightest "it was making people uncomfortable and impeding their ability to function" argument can be made, even in cases like this when they did not in fact "tell". I see no legal reason why the police should have informed the military, but on a more informal level their doing so makes sense. The military discharging her on those grounds does not.
So long as objections don't revolve around 'burn the cops' they're fine. Well, the DD 93 thing is ironclad, we're not sure if you definitely still have to get commander's permission to marry. DD forms are governments docs, noow, could she say 'well, the military didn't recognize it as a marriage so I didn't think I should list it as one?', sure, a little bit of BS in that but a good defense and assuming they wanted to perfect grounds to dismiss, but doesn't vice-versa mean not grounds to report it.
Now, the military discharging her? No choice, if someone brings you reasonable evidence of a crime in the military you have to act on it, as a commander. Otherwise it's dereliction of duty, we've got that so commanders can't use the twiddling thumbs excuse to overlook war crimes or plundering or rape etc. "Well, I know I've got this here written report from Pvt Snuffy saying X stole from the locals but I didn't think it my place to act on it and couldn't be sure it was proof' doesn't work, you can go to jail for that. You have to open an investigation or push it up the ladder, over to CID, etc. Your only defense otherwise is to say 'I didn't think it was reasonable evidence' and a marriage license is pretty solid proof of being gay, I don't think you can get any solider. If the people contacted hadn't opened an investigation or reported to someone who then did so, anyone who wanted to could have seen them hit with a horde of charges. You can get away with 'well, bob said he saw John and Ted kissing but he could hardly prove that and he might not have seen clearly' So whoevers desk it landed on probably wasn't the only person aware of it, or maybe they could have safely crumpled it up quietly and pretend they didn't ever see it, but with others knowing, it's gonna happen, and your asking someone to throw their career away and maybe even suffer punishment if they chose to sit on it. Hard to say how that would go down, I'd bet they'd go easy on someone for that too but it's asking someone a lot to gamble their career on it, that's even assuming many of the people involved aren't anti-gay or anti-gay marriage and might have been cheerful to proceed.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Lesbian sgt. discharged after police tell military
- 13/03/2010 10:43:06 PM
1111 Views
The military is entitled to know about all legal proceedings on its personnel, and the details
- 13/03/2010 11:08:18 PM
590 Views
Re: The military is entitled to know about all legal proceedings on its personnel, and the details
- 13/03/2010 11:37:30 PM
612 Views
Her marriage was an important detail
- 14/03/2010 12:38:29 AM
580 Views
Re: Her marriage was an important detail
- 14/03/2010 06:38:05 PM
594 Views
you're assuming the military are treated like actual citizens.
- 14/03/2010 06:50:14 PM
559 Views
Basically. *NM*
- 14/03/2010 06:54:14 PM
301 Views
really? I was really hoping someone would point out how wrong I was. *NM*
- 14/03/2010 07:01:45 PM
317 Views
It's not as bad as it sounds *NM*
- 14/03/2010 11:13:05 PM
286 Views
actually, I think it is as bad as it sounds.
- 15/03/2010 02:14:21 AM
508 Views
Because if you treated soldiers like civilians, they wouldn't be very effective. *NM*
- 15/03/2010 02:49:19 AM
283 Views
Matter of perspective
- 15/03/2010 03:13:21 AM
561 Views
*snort* there's "Rules" like any job has
- 15/03/2010 03:34:51 AM
553 Views
Re: *snort* there's "Rules" like any job has
- 15/03/2010 04:02:46 AM
575 Views
if someone is going to sign away their life and limb.
- 15/03/2010 04:05:36 AM
654 Views
You can get out of the military anytime in the first six months or so without any consequences. *NM*
- 15/03/2010 05:25:43 AM
360 Views
I'm less concerned about "Getting out"
- 15/03/2010 12:31:49 PM
603 Views
The military is different
- 14/03/2010 06:53:28 PM
681 Views
Re: The military is different
- 15/03/2010 12:34:47 AM
538 Views
You obviously don't get it. There is no right to privacy as a member of the military. Period.
- 15/03/2010 12:43:58 AM
521 Views
You obviously don't get it. The police ARE bound to treat everyone fairly and ethically regardless.
- 15/03/2010 03:54:27 AM
568 Views
No no no, I think you're missing a big point
- 15/03/2010 02:50:33 AM
532 Views
Actually, I believe she also violated federal law too
- 15/03/2010 03:38:26 AM
683 Views
You're forbidden from marrying your own gender in the first place. She knew that.
- 14/03/2010 06:05:37 AM
534 Views
Wow...how completely wrong you are.
- 15/03/2010 05:42:32 PM
509 Views
You want to cite when that was changed?
- 15/03/2010 06:27:47 PM
564 Views
I can't tell you when it was changed specifically...
- 15/03/2010 09:09:46 PM
498 Views
Re: I can't tell you when it was changed specifically...
- 15/03/2010 09:15:41 PM
524 Views
wait, why does this military have that right?
- 15/03/2010 10:03:14 PM
506 Views
Why does or why should? *NM*
- 15/03/2010 10:22:11 PM
288 Views
Not sure of the US's reasoning, though I would assume it is as in other countries,
- 15/03/2010 10:31:38 PM
498 Views
Can't cite you regs, don't know them and I have been out for a number of years now.
- 16/03/2010 12:17:58 AM
477 Views
Re: Can't cite you regs, don't know them and I have been out for a number of years now.
- 16/03/2010 12:33:33 AM
511 Views
Somebody brought up a valid point, though...
- 16/03/2010 01:01:18 AM
615 Views
Re: Somebody brought up a valid point, though...
- 16/03/2010 01:22:36 AM
663 Views
Does that mean you're backtracking on a number of your earlier statements?
- 16/03/2010 01:35:49 AM
726 Views
- 16/03/2010 01:35:49 AM
726 Views
Not really
- 16/03/2010 02:07:36 AM
567 Views
Looks like you're missing one of my points too, then.
- 16/03/2010 02:40:50 AM
858 Views
Re: Looks like you're missing one of my points too, then.
- 16/03/2010 02:57:03 AM
551 Views
A spouse's criminal record can effect a soldier's clearance.
- 15/03/2010 05:30:09 AM
649 Views
none?
- 15/03/2010 12:36:36 PM
563 Views
Perhaps the bit where the police may have informed the military out of spite.
- 15/03/2010 06:30:06 PM
597 Views
see and here's my thing
- 15/03/2010 10:04:43 PM
686 Views
Re: see and here's my thing
- 15/03/2010 10:45:10 PM
621 Views
i guess that's just me then
I tend to tuck important documents into single locations
- 15/03/2010 10:47:12 PM
594 Views
I tend to tuck important documents into single locations
- 15/03/2010 10:47:12 PM
594 Views
Re: i guess that's just me then
I tend to tuck important documents into single locations
- 15/03/2010 11:05:59 PM
634 Views
I tend to tuck important documents into single locations
- 15/03/2010 11:05:59 PM
634 Views
Don't ask, don't tell is stupid and outdated in a modern country.
- 15/03/2010 11:02:33 AM
548 Views
Aww. Is the homo crowd upset that their marital status is being treated EXACTLY like everyone else?
- 15/03/2010 10:25:42 PM
549 Views


