Active Users:953 Time:15/09/2025 12:16:05 AM
This is not bait, I am legitimately trying to understand. And if I understand correctly... TyrReborn Send a noteboard - 11/08/2023 05:17:02 PM


Imagine a teenager with gender dysphoria, who actually does get to choose freely:

puberty blockers, including their side effects, in order to make the rest of the transition later on (with or without surgery) easier
or
no puberty blockers, avoiding the side effects and making a potential retransition later in life easier, but at the cost of making them miserable throughout puberty and making future stages of the transition more difficult
And sure, the second option is 'doing nothing', but doing nothing is also a choice, which has upsides and downsides too.


So let me see if I understand this correctly.

  1. Puberty causes permanent changes to the body.
  2. Some people do not feel comfortable going through these permanent changes, for whatever reason
  3. We should do what we can to alleviate the suffering they feel to the extent that we can.
    So,
  4. We should artificially limit puberty.

Is that correct? Because if so, I need you to explain to me what's different about this;

  1. Teething causes permanent changes to the body.
  2. Some people do not feel comfortable going through this very painful period.
  3. We should do what we can to alleviate the suffering they feel to the extent that we can.
    So,
  4. We should artificially limit teething.

Or this;

  1. Growing causes permanent changes to the body.
  2. Some people do not feel comfortable going through these painful changes.
  3. We should do what we can to alleviate the sufering they feel to the extent that we can.
    So,
  4. We should remove their pituitary gland

And this one is a bit of a stretch/parody, but it is the same logic.

  1. Death causes permanent changes to the body.
  2. Some people do not feel comfortable going through these changes.
  3. We should do what we can to alleviate the suffering they feel to the extent that we can.
    So,
  4. Kill everybody so nobody has to die anymore.

~~~~~~~



Out of curiosity, do you think teenagers...

We'll go with your cancer statement. If the patient decides not to try the chemo, that is their decision. If they decide to do the chemo, that is their decision. They should make it with their parents and their doctors. And I see the point you're trying to make, but we must go back to something else you said.



Imagine a teenager with gender dysphoria,

I've spent the last several years being told "THEY HAVE THE WRONG BRAIN IN THE WRONG BODY!" or "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MENTAL HEALTH STRUGGLE!" or "IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THEIR SUFFERING DON'T MAKE FUN OF THEM!"

But now I have to imagine being one? Either it's something I cannot understand, and it's a real thing, much like I'll never understand how it feels to carry a child in a womb, or it's something I can "imagine", and they aren't "bOrN tHaT wAy!1!"

If it's the former, then I just don't get it, and these people are suffering something I can't comprehend, and shouldn't be called a bigot for not understanding. If it's the latter, then isn't that sort of blowing up the argument that's been made for the last several years?

So basically, I reject your comparison with cancer. A life-stealing disease, slowly devouring your body is not really comparable to mental anguish, no matter how deep. That's like comparing cancer to a vet's suicide. Both tragic, but it's apples and oranges.

Reply to message
“Can you imagine our reading that James Madison or Thomas Jefferson tried to overthrow the gov't?" - 03/08/2023 09:02:48 PM 1418 Views
I'm curious as to your point in posting this. - 04/08/2023 03:17:48 AM 588 Views
The point is that these uneducated dumbass race-baiters dare to lecture us - 04/08/2023 05:33:36 PM 547 Views
. . . - 05/08/2023 02:14:20 PM 553 Views
You're entitled to your optimistic view - 05/08/2023 04:24:33 PM 560 Views
You only think your view is realistic because you haven't studied enough history. - 06/08/2023 04:04:34 PM 582 Views
You're entitled to your optimistic view. *NM* - 06/08/2023 09:18:39 PM 252 Views
Not only is this statistically incorrect, it's historically incorrect. - 08/08/2023 11:35:42 PM 550 Views
Sigh, I understand that it's hard to grasp these days, with our medical miracles, - 14/08/2023 05:52:01 PM 552 Views
Disease is counted as part of wartime casualties. - 14/08/2023 08:17:53 PM 539 Views
And Covid killed 1000000 Americans lol - 14/08/2023 09:49:02 PM 540 Views
I don't think so - 07/08/2023 01:54:05 PM 585 Views
These facts would cause you to be denounced as a "putinite fascist"... - 07/08/2023 05:45:05 PM 535 Views
Well, of course it's going to pass - 07/08/2023 06:55:12 PM 585 Views
Tom, you are being far too reasonable. That doesn’t fly in 2023! *NM* - 08/08/2023 12:22:49 AM 253 Views
He is, which is why, I think, he is wrong. *NM* - 08/08/2023 10:18:32 PM 265 Views
I just can't buy that the political and academic class will give up their grip so easily. - 08/08/2023 05:49:58 PM 525 Views
Academics have been pro Marxism for over 100 years. It's nothing new. *NM* - 08/08/2023 05:59:55 PM 258 Views
Maybe. But they've never been this spiteful or spoiled before. - 09/08/2023 01:29:30 PM 510 Views
No, they only recruited students to spy for the Soviets *NM* - 14/08/2023 06:18:58 PM 251 Views
Yes. They do that now, too. Except it's the Chinese. *NM* - 14/08/2023 09:51:37 PM 252 Views
Do you have sources for that 'far more conservative and far more religious' claim? - 09/08/2023 07:35:50 PM 541 Views
In regards to more conservative, - 09/08/2023 08:35:03 PM 573 Views
I side with Greg and Tom in this discussion. - 08/08/2023 05:57:54 PM 532 Views
I don't suppose linking medical articles is going to help too much here, but... - 08/08/2023 11:28:05 PM 558 Views
Elizabeth, you know I have a non binary grandchild. - 09/08/2023 01:22:32 AM 580 Views
Yeah, I know, I just think that the statistics are dangerous. - 09/08/2023 04:36:40 AM 533 Views
Respectfully, do you truly believe this? - 09/08/2023 05:42:31 PM 537 Views
I'll bite... - 09/08/2023 06:39:46 PM 528 Views
Thanks. <3 *NM* - 09/08/2023 08:27:13 PM 250 Views
Your thoughts - 11/08/2023 04:14:37 PM 512 Views
Yes, that's true. - 11/08/2023 06:11:49 PM 550 Views
Re: Yes, that's true. - 12/08/2023 04:25:28 PM 508 Views
This is not bait, I am legitimately trying to understand. And if I understand correctly... - 11/08/2023 05:17:02 PM 571 Views
As I said, it wasn't intended as perfect analogy - it's about how much say should children have. - 11/08/2023 06:44:33 PM 546 Views
No, seriously, only the last one was intended as parody. And I'd like an explanation. - 14/08/2023 05:43:37 PM 527 Views
There aren't a lot of people committing suicide over their teeth coming in. - 14/08/2023 08:21:29 PM 538 Views
Indeed. - 14/08/2023 09:50:53 PM 513 Views
Re: No, seriously, only the last one was intended as parody. And I'd like an explanation. - 15/08/2023 04:14:57 PM 562 Views
See, you're willing to discuss, instead of insult. Others on this board might take note. - 17/08/2023 05:18:39 PM 545 Views
Yeah, well, I have the luxury of an outsider's position... - 23/08/2023 11:47:24 PM 549 Views
Nobody is an outsider when reality is being attacked. - 25/08/2023 05:40:43 PM 536 Views
Fun facts - 26/08/2023 06:22:57 AM 583 Views
Not really "fun" so much as "a sad reality of biology", but yes. - 27/08/2023 09:42:14 PM 544 Views
Imagine if you had the same attitude towards trans people. - 28/08/2023 12:02:34 AM 524 Views
I may be no endocrinologist, but I at least understand simple biology. XY =/= XX =/= XXY - 28/08/2023 05:40:14 PM 500 Views
Simple is definitely true. Shame you never learned biology past what you were taught in high school. - 28/08/2023 11:21:38 PM 520 Views
Right, cause we're "butterflies" - 29/08/2023 04:57:20 AM 513 Views
I go to mass more than you. *NM* - 29/08/2023 09:58:09 AM 253 Views
Wow, really? And you still mutilated your body and told God that He was wrong about you? - 31/08/2023 05:44:32 PM 511 Views
I must say, - 31/08/2023 07:04:47 PM 562 Views
Love is being true. Love is being honest. Love is God. - 31/08/2023 07:52:59 PM 525 Views
Really went off the deep end there huh... - 31/08/2023 10:39:02 PM 503 Views
At least my beliefs can't be disproven by a $40 test at Wal-Mart. - 02/09/2023 03:40:43 PM 495 Views
It's ok. Many of us are quite sad for you too. - 29/08/2023 11:10:32 AM 521 Views
I couldn't care less what unbelievers think. You'll meet the Truth, one day. - 31/08/2023 05:45:31 PM 510 Views
No such thing as damnation, but thanks. - 31/08/2023 06:55:23 PM 519 Views
Then nothing more needs to be said. See who support your lies, Ghav? They literally deny Love. *NM* - 31/08/2023 07:54:23 PM 240 Views
He understands love a lot better than you do. *NM* - 01/09/2023 04:46:14 AM 239 Views
Hah! I knew you didn't worship God. Thanks for admitting it. *NM* - 02/09/2023 03:38:43 PM 251 Views
You're simply acting deranged at this point. - 03/09/2023 01:13:20 AM 564 Views
I hope you don't call yourselves Christian. - 03/09/2023 04:11:06 AM 482 Views
Of course I'm Christian. I confess the faith of the apostles and of the councils. - 03/09/2023 11:41:56 AM 518 Views
Would you castrate Michelangelo's David? - 03/09/2023 09:03:07 PM 500 Views
Dude, you have really driven this off the deep end. - 03/09/2023 04:03:16 PM 510 Views
It is not, and I am not. - 03/09/2023 09:06:48 PM 530 Views
You absolutely are - 03/09/2023 09:27:00 PM 504 Views
Caution is not condemnation. Warning is not judgment. - 03/09/2023 11:05:17 PM 507 Views
Bro, I'm not worried about your immortal soul. - 03/09/2023 11:35:41 PM 528 Views
I get that. But Ghav, supposedly, is. - 04/09/2023 12:09:55 AM 529 Views
You’ve expressed some pretty odious and ugly sentiments. - 03/09/2023 10:07:51 PM 513 Views
Yeah, I'm definitely an outsider, and so are you. - 28/08/2023 07:49:48 PM 506 Views
Ok. - 29/08/2023 05:09:14 AM 511 Views
I'll chew... - 11/08/2023 10:35:45 PM 541 Views
What's your stance on parents who refuse medical treatment for their children with cancer? - 11/08/2023 11:12:21 PM 547 Views
I think... - 11/08/2023 11:37:52 PM 541 Views
Really? - 12/08/2023 12:02:12 AM 518 Views
Am I being unreasonable? - 12/08/2023 05:16:06 AM 555 Views
Maybe not - 12/08/2023 03:38:50 PM 554 Views
Most of us don't really like "the gays," either. And referring to people as "blacks" is offensive. *NM* - 13/08/2023 12:34:32 AM 247 Views
... is referring to people as "whites" offensive? I really, really hope you say yes. *NM* - 14/08/2023 05:46:07 PM 292 Views
Unfortunately for whites, gays, blacks, and transgenders... - 14/08/2023 06:09:47 PM 512 Views
Their voice only counts *NM* - 14/08/2023 06:20:32 PM 237 Views
Touché *NM* - 14/08/2023 07:12:54 PM 237 Views
You can always choose not to be a dick online. *NM* - 14/08/2023 08:19:52 PM 227 Views
Now why would I want to do that? - 14/08/2023 11:24:09 PM 516 Views
You're not a dick. You're honest. - 14/08/2023 09:54:34 PM 532 Views
Why not both? - 15/08/2023 03:01:58 AM 529 Views
Sad, but true. - 17/08/2023 05:22:11 PM 518 Views
Re: I think... - 13/08/2023 12:35:05 AM 533 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 12/08/2023 03:49:47 PM 572 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 14/08/2023 10:56:15 PM 520 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 15/08/2023 11:32:12 PM 540 Views
3 weeks later, did you have fun with this thread Tyr? *NM* - 28/08/2023 08:16:13 PM 252 Views
We went a bit afield, sure, but hey, the board has a discussion going, doesn't it? *NM* - 29/08/2023 05:00:03 AM 230 Views
Well take care - 31/08/2023 11:06:43 PM 556 Views
Same to you. - 03/09/2023 04:20:19 AM 518 Views
Seeing things as beautiful or rotting - 03/09/2023 05:21:50 PM 533 Views
I could not disagree more. - 03/09/2023 09:13:31 PM 536 Views
See this is about you - 03/09/2023 11:22:53 PM 537 Views
No, it's about God. - 03/09/2023 11:28:55 PM 522 Views
How much history do you know about Samaritans? - 03/09/2023 11:39:54 PM 513 Views
Friend, you can cut the shit. - 04/09/2023 12:19:56 AM 535 Views
I was going to talk about Mount Gerizim you nitwit - 04/09/2023 01:36:16 AM 522 Views
Oh, my apologies then. - 04/09/2023 07:46:57 PM 528 Views

Reply to Message