Your rebuts seems the same as previous ones, you seem to misunderstand me, I am not saying you have not offered counter-arguments, I am saying that those counter arguments offered don't seem valid and consistent with your actions. That even when true they seem indicative of anti-town actions, which are not necessarily those of a DF. A vanilla who rarely posts is anti-town. I feel your actions to be suspicious, and anti-town if you are a townie. I raised the only logical reasons for you to do as you appeared to have done if you were a townie and stated that those were anti-town. It's what you are missing, I am asking for non-anti-town reasons for your actions, not just non-Df ones. When people get lynched it follows the formula of 'I think these actions can be seen as DF-ish, but if not, they certainly seem anti-town'
i.e. "I find his cop claim dubious, but we can't risk losing the cop if we're wrong"
Now, you've not even RC'd, which tends to be the norm for people on the defense, and I've noted that DF's tend to wait till they are asked, but townies under the crosshairs tend to give it without prodding. RCing when it's unneeded is considered pretty anti-town, but not when you're near-lynch, because the assumption is everyone will know your role soon anyway. DF's avoid it as a default because they know a role is a dangerous claim and a vanilla claim is not a major motivation to stop a lynch.
Anyway, the reasoning you've offered up for your actions can be valid, perhaps it is, but even if true it does not show you in a great light. What I was asking for was explanations of the suspicious behavior that couldn't be viewed as either DF-ish or anti-town, you've not provided these.
i.e. "I find his cop claim dubious, but we can't risk losing the cop if we're wrong"
Now, you've not even RC'd, which tends to be the norm for people on the defense, and I've noted that DF's tend to wait till they are asked, but townies under the crosshairs tend to give it without prodding. RCing when it's unneeded is considered pretty anti-town, but not when you're near-lynch, because the assumption is everyone will know your role soon anyway. DF's avoid it as a default because they know a role is a dangerous claim and a vanilla claim is not a major motivation to stop a lynch.
Anyway, the reasoning you've offered up for your actions can be valid, perhaps it is, but even if true it does not show you in a great light. What I was asking for was explanations of the suspicious behavior that couldn't be viewed as either DF-ish or anti-town, you've not provided these.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Rafo Mafia 4 Day 2 is over.
- 08/02/2010 06:53:53 PM
3862 Views
Well, I guess I'll kick off this discussion
- 08/02/2010 08:53:49 PM
1792 Views
Re: Well, I guess I'll kick off this discussion
- 08/02/2010 09:28:57 PM
1588 Views
Hey, by the way, are you Mafia?
- 08/02/2010 09:34:46 PM
1759 Views
I am not Hopper
- 08/02/2010 10:37:55 PM
1670 Views
- 08/02/2010 10:37:55 PM
1670 Views
Maybe I am AWESOME
- 08/02/2010 11:19:48 PM
1700 Views
A few questions and comments
- 08/02/2010 09:29:06 PM
1629 Views
Re: Well, I guess I'll kick off this discussion
- 09/02/2010 02:47:03 AM
1617 Views
RBIRL ... test tomorrow. Probably not going to post tonight. *NM*
- 09/02/2010 12:03:38 AM
974 Views
You know what?
- 09/02/2010 01:17:52 AM
1601 Views
Re: You know what?
- 09/02/2010 01:34:42 AM
1549 Views
Heh, inorganic chemistry.
- 09/02/2010 01:57:39 AM
1611 Views
Re: Heh, inorganic chemistry.
- 09/02/2010 02:38:45 AM
1599 Views
Re: Heh, inorganic chemistry.
- 09/02/2010 03:29:32 AM
1689 Views
Re: Heh, inorganic chemistry.
- 09/02/2010 03:36:28 AM
1616 Views
Well thanks for the encouragement.
- 09/02/2010 04:14:50 AM
1763 Views
- 09/02/2010 04:14:50 AM
1763 Views
Heh, Mafia: Other than the occasional lynching or assassination, we're one big supportive family.
- 09/02/2010 04:24:26 AM
1736 Views
Hypocop (Table)
- 09/02/2010 12:59:06 AM
1698 Views
I investigated Fox and Ravens and found hi to be for the shadow. *NM*
- 09/02/2010 04:46:50 AM
925 Views
Hmmm,
- 09/02/2010 06:18:29 AM
1557 Views
We didn't lose two of our biggest roles. Also- I wonder if there are more roles?
- 09/02/2010 06:35:05 AM
1460 Views
Re: We didn't lose two of our biggest roles. Also- I wonder if there are more roles?
- 09/02/2010 07:16:19 AM
1572 Views
Huh. Oh boy oh
- 09/02/2010 06:39:15 AM
1432 Views
Care to give us your thoughts? *NM*
- 09/02/2010 07:26:09 AM
954 Views
Well, losing Doc and Deputy same night is bound to cause trouble. Especially losing Doc. *NM*
- 09/02/2010 08:54:49 AM
934 Views
I want to throw this out here.
- 09/02/2010 07:21:04 AM
1620 Views
What changed your mind? *NM*
- 09/02/2010 08:58:09 AM
906 Views
Well, I realized I was the one telling everyone to just vote for someone.
- 09/02/2010 04:56:17 PM
1638 Views
Why is everyone assuming we have a SK?
- 10/02/2010 12:09:47 AM
1650 Views
What tips me off is the "melted plastic".
- 10/02/2010 12:22:56 AM
1502 Views
That's so arbitrary, though.
- 10/02/2010 12:57:09 AM
1433 Views
EBWOP: It's probably not a vigilante.
- 10/02/2010 01:05:57 AM
1653 Views
That seems like good reasoning
- 10/02/2010 01:50:47 AM
1577 Views
Re: That seems like good reasoning
- 10/02/2010 01:58:14 AM
1630 Views
That's a vig rule? I did not know that
- 10/02/2010 08:16:56 PM
1564 Views
Well, it's pretty common sense.
- 10/02/2010 09:09:09 PM
1702 Views
I think he might have been referring to vigilante kills being blockable
- 10/02/2010 09:43:53 PM
1505 Views
As the resident expert on vigilantism
- 10/02/2010 08:04:17 PM
1909 Views
Youre the resident expert on vigilantism? *NM*
- 11/02/2010 11:06:24 PM
928 Views
He was a vig once or twice. *NM*
- 12/02/2010 01:33:57 AM
949 Views
Wait, haven't you proposed an arsonist most games. *NM*
- 10/02/2010 04:37:33 AM
886 Views
Because we have a SK *NM*
- 10/02/2010 05:14:00 AM
878 Views
wait a minute
- 10/02/2010 01:15:32 PM
1604 Views
Another thing
- 10/02/2010 04:42:50 PM
1679 Views
F-T, I assume
- 10/02/2010 05:08:58 PM
1534 Views
Probably, might be a hint at an RB but I doubt it *NM*
- 10/02/2010 06:57:01 PM
917 Views
I don't think it could be a RB
- 10/02/2010 07:47:55 PM
1632 Views
We're stalling out a bit
- 11/02/2010 10:05:09 PM
1541 Views
We could talk about my heroic failure to defend the innocent some more? Fine...
- 12/02/2010 07:12:51 AM
1627 Views
You seem engaged in a very active defense so far this game
- 12/02/2010 09:40:23 PM
1792 Views
Yawn...
- 12/02/2010 11:28:50 PM
1738 Views
Re: Yawn...
- 13/02/2010 12:32:30 AM
1687 Views
Re: Yawn...
- 13/02/2010 01:31:41 AM
1632 Views
He's brought up accusations on himself
- 13/02/2010 02:40:01 AM
1775 Views
Alrighty, let's try this again.
- 14/02/2010 06:38:26 AM
1436 Views
On F-T's accusations against you.
- 14/02/2010 01:54:20 AM
1582 Views
Re: On F-T's accusations against you.
- 14/02/2010 03:43:52 AM
1489 Views
That's right, I am the Breaker of Unbroken Records
- 14/02/2010 05:56:52 AM
1550 Views
- 14/02/2010 05:56:52 AM
1550 Views
Actually, quite few of my streaks were broken on that one
- 14/02/2010 08:43:09 AM
1532 Views
I'm in second? Woo!
- 14/02/2010 02:46:05 PM
1553 Views
Yep, welcome to being a lightning rod
- 14/02/2010 09:10:43 PM
1717 Views
- 14/02/2010 09:10:43 PM
1717 Views
I'm not gonna be as targeted as you; I've died a LOT.
- 14/02/2010 11:17:24 PM
1583 Views
Ironically I don't think I've ever killed you
- 14/02/2010 11:56:03 PM
1551 Views
Game 1 I remember.
- 15/02/2010 12:01:21 AM
1424 Views
Re: Game 1 I remember.
- 15/02/2010 12:19:30 AM
1796 Views
Three stalled out over the winter holidays and we had to restart.
- 15/02/2010 01:26:59 AM
1764 Views
Actually...
- 15/02/2010 04:57:50 PM
1638 Views
A second line of thought: ranagrande
- 12/02/2010 07:40:37 AM
1832 Views
Vote: Hieshyn
- 15/02/2010 03:27:04 AM
1403 Views
Re: Hieshyn
- 15/02/2010 12:54:42 PM
1702 Views
Well, it's less that discussion is winding down, and more that we don't have any new topics
- 15/02/2010 05:48:22 PM
1467 Views
Well this was unexpected.
- 15/02/2010 06:07:44 PM
1512 Views
Re: Well this was unexpected.
- 15/02/2010 08:30:57 PM
1531 Views
I think he's saying that he's been quiet because he's busy, not a DF
- 15/02/2010 08:39:53 PM
1445 Views
If he was the SK
- 15/02/2010 07:55:38 PM
1653 Views
Game 9 was F-T's Cairhienen Civil War/Succession.
- 15/02/2010 08:53:03 PM
1501 Views
Oh that's right!
- 15/02/2010 09:03:40 PM
1507 Views
Re: Game 9 was F-T's Cairhienen Civil War/Succession.
- 15/02/2010 11:54:44 PM
1594 Views
Lol irony
- 16/02/2010 12:16:49 AM
1555 Views
So, it's just because he hasn't been talking much? That fits a lot of people
- 15/02/2010 09:31:02 PM
1649 Views
OK, I'm glad that vote got some discussion flowing.
- 16/02/2010 02:58:55 AM
1668 Views
Ooo sneaky sneaky
- 16/02/2010 03:58:37 AM
1761 Views
Re: Ooo sneaky sneaky
- 16/02/2010 04:25:26 AM
1595 Views
You know doing this sort of thing can get you lynched
- 16/02/2010 04:40:23 AM
1617 Views
Oh, I know it can.
- 16/02/2010 05:23:13 AM
1624 Views
Re: Oh, I know it can.
- 16/02/2010 07:00:53 AM
1688 Views
It's weird- I've never played Live Mafia, but I imagine it's very different.
- 16/02/2010 08:58:09 AM
1668 Views
I'm still here, I've been busy with studying, and hadn't realized I was gone this long.
- 16/02/2010 06:50:44 AM
1534 Views
Sorry all. Friday thru Monday suddenly got really hectic, I wasn't home much at all.
- 18/02/2010 01:54:02 AM
1574 Views
So, where are we at?
- 18/02/2010 02:40:32 AM
1594 Views
EBWOP: Issac's maybe only a 5.5. No, a 5.7
- 18/02/2010 06:58:40 AM
1641 Views
OK so I apparantly lack the technical know-how to reply to myself
- 18/02/2010 07:08:36 AM
1686 Views
Re: OK so I apparantly lack the technical know-how to reply to myself
- 18/02/2010 07:54:05 AM
1563 Views
Well yeah, all of that is mostly why I haven't been pushing anything
- 18/02/2010 08:51:14 AM
1474 Views
Uggggghhhh...Ok. This post makes me want to vote you off.
- 18/02/2010 03:28:19 PM
1514 Views
You seem to have misunbderstood my question
- 18/02/2010 04:28:47 PM
1537 Views
Re: You seem to have misunbderstood my question
- 18/02/2010 05:10:14 PM
1743 Views
Nice little typo I have there on misundertood, that's gonna be nagging at me for all of Day 2
- 18/02/2010 05:25:49 PM
1521 Views
Re: Nice little typo I have there on misundertood, that's gonna be nagging at me for all of Day 2
- 19/02/2010 04:45:25 AM
1489 Views
Thanks, all right let's review it
- 19/02/2010 11:41:19 AM
1532 Views
Alright then.
- 19/02/2010 05:20:39 PM
1306 Views
EBWOP
- 19/02/2010 05:23:06 PM
1674 Views
Re: EBWOP
- 19/02/2010 06:53:08 PM
1668 Views
Naive?
- 19/02/2010 07:13:14 PM
1627 Views
Naive or sinister, take your pick
- 19/02/2010 07:29:09 PM
1633 Views
We could go with "arrogant," instead of either of those, if you like
- 20/02/2010 01:59:22 AM
1382 Views
Hmm...well here's something interesting now that you reminded me of that game...
- 19/02/2010 08:26:33 PM
1484 Views
Re: Hmm...well here's something interesting now that you reminded me of that game...
- 19/02/2010 08:40:47 PM
1493 Views
Re: EBWOP
- 19/02/2010 08:32:55 PM
1473 Views
Re: EBWOP
- 19/02/2010 08:57:50 PM
1465 Views
Actually, that reminds me. HEY KRONIN!
- 18/02/2010 07:09:39 AM
1534 Views
Hey.
- 18/02/2010 04:09:08 PM
1583 Views
Re: Hey.
- 18/02/2010 05:37:33 PM
1690 Views
FT had no evidence one way or the other if Issac was a DF
- 18/02/2010 05:44:43 PM
1454 Views
Don't put words in my mouth.
- 18/02/2010 06:03:55 PM
1673 Views
Oh no, I know, I know. I'm just saying, FT has no more credibility than any of us *NM*
- 18/02/2010 07:48:58 PM
927 Views
But he IS a damn good player, and his advice, however limited, should be taken into account. *NM*
- 18/02/2010 07:49:58 PM
896 Views
fistofpainx, Do you have any thoughts?
- 18/02/2010 05:46:38 PM
1555 Views
I think that
- 18/02/2010 09:45:56 PM
1597 Views
Well, if my combine the Vote Record with our previous suspicions...
- 18/02/2010 09:48:24 PM
1540 Views
All right, ranagrande (and everyone else). Why shouldn't we lynch you?
- 18/02/2010 11:32:07 PM
1518 Views
Re: All right, ranagrande (and everyone else). Why shouldn't we lynch you?
- 19/02/2010 03:01:45 AM
1445 Views
Re: All right, ranagrande (and everyone else). Why shouldn't we lynch you?
- 19/02/2010 04:07:03 AM
1597 Views
I think you're overestimating the appearance of your own innocence.
- 19/02/2010 05:38:53 AM
1482 Views
Yeah, it's mostly just about getting the conversation going
- 19/02/2010 06:40:17 AM
1560 Views
In response to Fox and Ravens (down here to stop horizontal scroll)
- 19/02/2010 09:50:16 PM
1623 Views
Re: In response to Fox and Ravens (down here to stop horizontal scroll)
- 19/02/2010 10:22:37 PM
1614 Views
Well, the reason for the prohibition doesn't apply post-game, so I'll go with no
- 20/02/2010 05:07:38 AM
1534 Views
After seeing this thread....
- 20/02/2010 05:53:47 AM
1455 Views
Go ahead and start one then.
- 20/02/2010 06:08:12 AM
1584 Views
Re: Go ahead and start one then.
- 20/02/2010 06:47:23 AM
1670 Views
Isaac, did you say you have Cor's original rules saved somewhere?
- 20/02/2010 04:50:29 PM
1670 Views
Re: Isaac, did you say you have Cor's original rules saved somewhere?
- 20/02/2010 05:16:09 PM
1716 Views
Alright.
- 20/02/2010 05:43:51 PM
1606 Views
Thanks
- 20/02/2010 07:48:20 PM
1477 Views
Re: Thanks
- 20/02/2010 10:35:26 PM
1449 Views
Ranagrande *NM*
- 21/02/2010 12:55:29 AM
890 Views
Really?
- 21/02/2010 01:58:24 AM
1592 Views
Re: Thanks
- 21/02/2010 01:57:25 AM
1556 Views
Well, you kind of said it yourself.
- 21/02/2010 07:38:32 PM
1529 Views
I'm purposefully trying to not be so focussed on ranagrande
- 21/02/2010 11:06:40 PM
1600 Views
Not sure I follow
- 22/02/2010 06:49:11 PM
1611 Views
Items of note from my NB archive:
- 21/02/2010 09:37:49 PM
1710 Views
I am kind of confused about what you're doing here.
- 22/02/2010 07:20:49 PM
1766 Views
I'm feeling the same thing.
- 22/02/2010 07:36:46 PM
1582 Views
I hadn't even seen Beet's post at the bottom there until after I'd posted this.
- 22/02/2010 07:44:49 PM
1519 Views
Re: Rafo Mafia 4 Day 2
- 22/02/2010 12:09:20 PM
1598 Views
Alright. Here's a quick synposis
- 22/02/2010 07:54:19 PM
1613 Views
That sounds about right to me.
- 22/02/2010 07:58:29 PM
1602 Views
I'll try to, I just may not have the time to. If I do, I'll definately read them all. *NM*
- 23/02/2010 07:05:24 AM
833 Views
Another minor piece against ranagrande
- 22/02/2010 07:13:44 PM
1624 Views
Re: Another minor piece against ranagrande
- 22/02/2010 08:23:48 PM
1760 Views
Fair enough
- 22/02/2010 08:38:51 PM
1719 Views
Re: Fair enough
- 22/02/2010 09:07:57 PM
1546 Views
Maybe I missed it....
- 22/02/2010 09:26:47 PM
1680 Views
Re: Maybe I missed it....
- 23/02/2010 09:38:23 PM
1522 Views
I will destroy the world
- 23/02/2010 11:17:26 PM
1655 Views
And yet, that's the exact same thing you called me out on yesterday. *NM*
- 24/02/2010 01:07:07 AM
794 Views
Ok, that's totally different...
- 24/02/2010 06:36:00 AM
1519 Views
All that's different is the presumed final intent.
- 24/02/2010 12:36:32 PM
1667 Views
Yeah ... those are pretty much the same. *NM*
- 24/02/2010 03:17:25 PM
812 Views
Yea.... beet's looking worse and worse every time he opens his mouth, so to speak. *NM*
- 24/02/2010 09:00:47 PM
906 Views
No, this is my view:
- 24/02/2010 11:23:25 PM
1648 Views
And my view was:
- 25/02/2010 01:29:13 AM
1528 Views
shrug. I haven't been attacking you today, you know
- 25/02/2010 01:46:39 AM
1585 Views
Vote: Fox and Ravens *NM*
- 24/02/2010 04:51:24 AM
897 Views
Can I ask why?
- 24/02/2010 05:06:22 AM
1551 Views
We're sort of in a holding pattern here, Hieshyn
- 25/02/2010 07:01:23 PM
1713 Views
You're right, Isaac.
- 25/02/2010 08:47:03 PM
1699 Views
Though I presume this was already somewhat obvious, ^Seconded. *NM*
- 25/02/2010 08:56:19 PM
832 Views
I'll agree. Beet has been suspicious, and we havent found enough with ranagrande to continue *NM*
- 26/02/2010 02:00:36 AM
932 Views
At first I thought he was going for a F&R-style trap
- 26/02/2010 01:44:16 AM
1605 Views
RBIRL. Had a lot of school stuff, gone for the weekend. Sorry. *NM*
- 27/02/2010 01:05:40 AM
901 Views
Sorry I've been insanely busy.
- 27/02/2010 03:33:43 AM
1693 Views
This seems a lot like an OMGUS.
- 27/02/2010 07:02:12 AM
1524 Views
Re: Sorry I've been insanely busy.
- 27/02/2010 07:06:39 AM
1599 Views
Okay, let's try to finish off today
- 27/02/2010 07:27:09 PM
1622 Views
Interesting.
- 27/02/2010 09:28:33 PM
1528 Views
I sort of assumed everyone knew where I'm aiming, I've been pretty open about it
- 27/02/2010 09:45:50 PM
1592 Views
Vote: ranagrande
- 27/02/2010 09:12:51 PM
1540 Views
What, if anything, has changed?
- 28/02/2010 03:19:49 AM
1530 Views
Dang, I didn't know you could make text larger. Fancy! *NM*
- 28/02/2010 04:57:28 AM
870 Views
A little joke
- 28/02/2010 05:16:14 AM
2318 Views
Yikes (warning: lots of text)
- 28/02/2010 12:35:16 AM
1564 Views
Guess I'll set up the other camp: Vote: beetnemesis
- 28/02/2010 03:22:49 AM
1492 Views
my stance on voting
- 01/03/2010 03:08:33 AM
1633 Views
Re: my stance on voting
- 01/03/2010 03:21:32 AM
1679 Views
Perhaps a deadline would liven things up?
- 02/03/2010 08:46:35 PM
1516 Views
I hope you all feel really guilty about this
- 03/03/2010 06:22:57 AM
1422 Views
Not likely, we're pretty draconian about lynches these days
- 03/03/2010 09:15:00 AM
1470 Views
..I can and HAVE rebutted these.
- 03/03/2010 05:15:32 PM
1504 Views
EBWOP: I need to start hitting preview to make sure the formatting is right.
- 03/03/2010 05:18:43 PM
1467 Views
I'm sorry, I am not convinced
- 03/03/2010 11:16:36 PM
1444 Views
I figured it'd be meaningless to RC, but ok...
- 04/03/2010 01:54:36 AM
1534 Views
All right, let's look at this
- 04/03/2010 02:06:58 AM
1626 Views
I find this very, very, very, VERY unlikely.
- 04/03/2010 05:25:41 AM
1658 Views
At this point I feel like anything I could say would only hurt my case
- 04/03/2010 06:34:43 AM
1551 Views
You brought this upon yourself.
- 03/03/2010 01:06:58 PM
1500 Views
Are you a Town Roleblocker? (Table) - Summary: All 'No'
- 04/03/2010 02:28:55 AM
1704 Views
Well, I don't think there is much point in further delay
- 04/03/2010 11:44:57 PM
1432 Views
I think that's everyone.
- 05/03/2010 04:39:23 AM
1445 Views
Well, Beet already hammered.
- 05/03/2010 06:44:08 AM
1517 Views
Beetnemesis has been lynched
- 05/03/2010 05:38:05 PM
1602 Views
Sorry Beet!
*NM*
- 06/03/2010 05:11:56 AM
904 Views
*NM*
- 06/03/2010 05:11:56 AM
904 Views
You shall be the only one I don't haunt *NM*
- 06/03/2010 06:29:23 AM
816 Views
Yo, what did I do to you? *NM*
- 06/03/2010 06:47:51 PM
964 Views
I meant of those who lynched me! You shall be EXALTED!
- 06/03/2010 06:52:39 PM
1650 Views


*NM*

*NM*