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Are you a native English speaker, Legolas? (Clarified to preempt possible internet tears) Dan Send a noteboard - 06/04/2012 09:29:28 AM
I'm not asking if you speak very well well, or have a functionally perfect grasp of the language, or if you have spent your whole life speaking and listening to English. Because you speak with some pretty pretentious authority about what a word's connotations are.

(I'm going to preemptively put a copy/paste edit in here from below to clarify)

I'll probably get some flack for this, but frankly, it should be emphasized more. I'm not being a bigot, I am saying the following. Despite the fact that Americans eat cheeseburgers and hate healthcare, American English is in fact a very complex and nuanced language that people ought to respect just a bit more, particularly with issues this subtle. It should be afforded the same respect as Japanese or Attic Greek. Being raised here does matter in some of these liminal cases. Being intelligent, watching movies, and reading books will not help someone on an issue that is this complex. You need to be a native speaker living here.


So I think Vivien was quite justified to point it out.
He was using it as I'd use it. To define a group's gender. It's all-inclusive and accurate to use as a term.

So is "women", and that does not create connotations of animals or people reduced to what happens to be between their legs.
Sure, he could have used "women" or "girls" but, in my opinion, big fucking difference... but that is just my opinion. I tend not to get my feathers all ruffled over such little things.

I suppose we all have our priorities, things that we consider "little" that others find pretty big, or the other way around. What's clear is that since Jens doesn't intend to give offense, using another word would be the smart thing to do.
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This message last edited by Dan on 06/04/2012 at 10:06:28 AM
  • Edit 2 by Dan on 06/04/2012 at 10:06:28 AM
  • Edit 1 by Dan on 06/04/2012 at 10:06:03 AM
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The Hunger Games gets a ... different kind of review. Artsapat - 03/04/2012 03:37:39 PM 2436 Views
"Written by a female with femalist themes" Vivien - 03/04/2012 04:38:54 PM 1195 Views
Ok, I did and basically it's garbage. *NM* Vivien - 03/04/2012 04:53:00 PM 1022 Views
I grant that I haven't read the Hunger Games yet LadyLorraine - 03/04/2012 05:10:38 PM 1149 Views
No, it's totally off. *NM* Aeryn - 03/04/2012 05:39:03 PM 1003 Views
fair enough. like I said, I haven't read it yet. *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/04/2012 07:20:34 PM 942 Views
It's not. That's what shallow idiots say about things where women have power or physical skills *NM* Cannoli - 04/04/2012 03:45:22 PM 1016 Views
I can only speak for the film, which was not feminist. ironclad - 03/04/2012 06:01:18 PM 1111 Views
Where do I start? Vivien - 03/04/2012 07:43:18 PM 1112 Views
Hermoine was the most kick ass of the Potter kids. MightyYT - 04/04/2012 03:08:17 AM 966 Views
So? Hunger Games has lots of male characters. Vivien - 04/04/2012 05:30:21 AM 1018 Views
But that is exactly what feminist means "it could have been a boy just as well" Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:42:43 PM 1111 Views
His racism point... Artsapat - 04/04/2012 02:32:43 PM 917 Views
Makes me almost wish I knew the source material so I could judge what he is saying A Deathwatch Guard - 03/04/2012 10:50:48 PM 1007 Views
Why don't you think the Hunger Games are feminist? Vivien - 03/04/2012 11:17:53 PM 1107 Views
Why would I consider it to be femenist? A Deathwatch Guard - 04/04/2012 01:51:24 AM 1011 Views
I just don't consider feminism as something that has to be radical. Vivien - 04/04/2012 05:42:59 AM 1075 Views
Completely agree with your first paragraph ironclad - 04/04/2012 08:22:35 AM 1073 Views
Re: Completely agree with your first paragraph DomA - 04/04/2012 01:43:55 PM 1029 Views
To you "feminist" is a dirty word? To me, it means acceptable. Differences in definitions I think Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:50:32 PM 992 Views
Unfortunately truly ordinary female characters are so rare that the exceptions stand out Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:49:16 PM 1061 Views
Fair enough ironclad - 04/04/2012 02:33:22 PM 1110 Views
Stop using female as a noun! Vivien - 04/04/2012 03:51:13 PM 999 Views
It's stuff like that that makes you lose cred ironclad - 04/04/2012 05:26:24 PM 1050 Views
It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. Legolas - 04/04/2012 07:30:18 PM 998 Views
I don't think Jens was really using it that way, though LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 07:34:28 PM 922 Views
Thank you! ironclad - 04/04/2012 08:03:38 PM 1037 Views
Of course he didn't intend it that way, but that's how it sounds. Legolas - 04/04/2012 08:06:03 PM 1022 Views
I understand that, but it's still such a ridiculous thing to get fussed over LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 09:20:01 PM 1062 Views
You are rather exaggerating just how "fussed" anyone did get, you do realize. Legolas - 04/04/2012 09:51:22 PM 975 Views
Her tone was not just "informative". It was accusatory LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:17:57 PM 949 Views
Female is perfectly acceptable to use in a medical/clinical setting. *NM* Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:36:57 PM 1179 Views
so if your problem is people using it disparagingly... LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:45:10 PM 919 Views
That's not what I said. Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:51:41 PM 1088 Views
I'm going to have to just outright disagree with you then. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:54:25 PM 980 Views
Which flies in the face of it's ordinary usage, which smacks of needless revisionism. Dan - 06/04/2012 09:42:15 AM 983 Views
Oh please. Stop telling females to shut up. *NM* Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:45:58 PM 1075 Views
If I wanted to be accusatory... Vivien - 04/04/2012 11:05:37 PM 990 Views
Accusatory of what.i think you meant annoyed. So youre annoyed she was annoyed? Let's out this to re *NM* Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:44:17 PM 1050 Views
Are you a native English speaker, Legolas? (Clarified to preempt possible internet tears) Dan - 06/04/2012 09:29:28 AM 1017 Views
Nope. (edit) Legolas - 06/04/2012 07:23:54 PM 1017 Views
Re: Nope. (edit) Dan - 07/04/2012 04:51:30 AM 1079 Views
"Female that"? That's even worse. Legolas - 07/04/2012 11:42:00 AM 949 Views
Ok. Dan - 07/04/2012 03:27:16 PM 1261 Views
Let's try and whittle this down some so as to help you with the quotes. Legolas - 07/04/2012 05:42:32 PM 959 Views
However he meant it, it was unpleasant to read. Just use "woman" instead. *NM* Aeryn - 05/04/2012 08:13:13 PM 928 Views
Re: It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. DomA - 05/04/2012 02:21:21 AM 1016 Views
I think the language difference is really interesting. nossy - 05/04/2012 03:13:03 PM 1038 Views
English is not French, and it's not German. Particularly the connotations of American English words Dan - 06/04/2012 09:39:00 AM 1103 Views
LOL! You don't say... DomA - 06/04/2012 05:06:20 PM 990 Views
LOL u so mad Dan - 06/04/2012 06:19:28 PM 986 Views
The prospect of "losing cred" is not going to stop me from speaking my mind. Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:30:03 PM 971 Views
My dear Aeryn - 09/04/2012 01:07:34 PM 1032 Views
LOL ironclad - 09/04/2012 01:57:53 PM 853 Views
guess what, it is a noun. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 07:26:39 PM 847 Views
That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. nossy - 04/04/2012 08:19:02 PM 995 Views
well it's important that you say "female human" LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 09:28:45 PM 955 Views
Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:48:07 PM 952 Views
wait, so now you're claiming it's a grammatical thing? *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:58:31 PM 968 Views
No, I have issues with words that begin with the letter f. Vivien - 04/04/2012 11:09:45 PM 997 Views
ooookay then. LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 11:11:23 PM 1043 Views
Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. nossy - 05/04/2012 02:08:26 AM 1029 Views
Re: Stop using female as a noun! dacole - 05/04/2012 02:18:47 PM 898 Views
If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here. Vivien - 05/04/2012 05:59:16 PM 945 Views
For the record, I certainly don't think you're crazy town. nossy - 05/04/2012 07:23:18 PM 978 Views
Oh, so now we're using 'dislike' instead of 'should'. It's funny how you fell back on that. Dan - 06/04/2012 10:01:59 AM 992 Views
Fascinating. Vivien - 06/04/2012 09:54:47 PM 993 Views
Re: Fascinating. Dan - 07/04/2012 03:54:26 AM 997 Views
Just in case (however slim that chance may be) you are genuinely interested in citations/references. Vivien - 07/04/2012 05:34:37 AM 984 Views
What a joke. Do you even know what grammar is? Dan - 07/04/2012 05:57:40 AM 1044 Views
Oh, come off it. This should be the point where you admit to being wrong. Legolas - 07/04/2012 12:11:07 PM 924 Views
Sorry, no. Read better. Dan - 07/04/2012 02:23:10 PM 954 Views
*deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. Legolas - 07/04/2012 06:38:08 PM 951 Views
Re: *deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. Dan - 07/04/2012 09:26:34 PM 1090 Views
Aha, we found the problem Aeryn - 09/04/2012 01:03:35 PM 1060 Views
You're being disingenuous. Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:57:38 PM 972 Views
Re: If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here. dacole - 09/04/2012 03:09:06 AM 975 Views
Nothing wrong with your use of female. You should ignore those crazy foreigners saying otherwise. *NM* snoopcester - 06/04/2012 02:49:41 PM 840 Views
I think I'll start saying males instead of men. If the males here don't mind? *NM* Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:58:54 PM 969 Views
To be fair Artsapat - 04/04/2012 02:37:25 PM 999 Views
You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:46:16 PM 1023 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive Artsapat - 04/04/2012 02:23:33 PM 967 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive Bored - 04/04/2012 07:51:46 PM 967 Views
This Cannoli - 05/04/2012 12:20:04 AM 966 Views
Interesting. I really need to read these books soon, evidently. *NM* Legolas - 03/04/2012 10:52:43 PM 942 Views
I got half way through the review and got bored. MightyYT - 04/04/2012 03:09:58 AM 967 Views
And it appears the writer of the article completely missed a central point of the story *spoilers* Mat Maniac - 04/04/2012 05:44:40 AM 1011 Views
I think that might be debatable Cannoli - 05/04/2012 06:59:35 PM 995 Views
She still made plenty of choices and she did choose to kill. Vivien - 05/04/2012 07:13:47 PM 933 Views
The reviewer is kind of full of it, but makes a good point about the character Cannoli - 04/04/2012 04:22:30 PM 1050 Views
Out of curiosity (this off topic) LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 07:32:25 PM 944 Views
Rachel, of course. Cannoli - 05/04/2012 12:17:41 AM 1056 Views
Well. Now I've actually seen it. (mild spoilers) Legolas - 09/04/2012 12:17:03 AM 1043 Views
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