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Are you a native English speaker, Legolas? (Clarified to preempt possible internet tears) Dan Send a noteboard - 06/04/2012 09:29:28 AM
I'm not asking if you speak very well well, or have a functionally perfect grasp of the language, or if you have spent your whole life speaking and listening to English. Because you speak with some pretty pretentious authority about what a word's connotations are.

(I'm going to preemptively put a copy/paste edit in here from below to clarify)

I'll probably get some flack for this, but frankly, it should be emphasized more. I'm not being a bigot, I am saying the following. Despite the fact that Americans eat cheeseburgers and hate healthcare, American English is in fact a very complex and nuanced language that people ought to respect just a bit more, particularly with issues this subtle. It should be afforded the same respect as Japanese or Attic Greek. Being raised here does matter in some of these liminal cases. Being intelligent, watching movies, and reading books will not help someone on an issue that is this complex. You need to be a native speaker living here.


So I think Vivien was quite justified to point it out.
He was using it as I'd use it. To define a group's gender. It's all-inclusive and accurate to use as a term.

So is "women", and that does not create connotations of animals or people reduced to what happens to be between their legs.
Sure, he could have used "women" or "girls" but, in my opinion, big fucking difference... but that is just my opinion. I tend not to get my feathers all ruffled over such little things.

I suppose we all have our priorities, things that we consider "little" that others find pretty big, or the other way around. What's clear is that since Jens doesn't intend to give offense, using another word would be the smart thing to do.
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This message last edited by Dan on 06/04/2012 at 10:06:28 AM
  • Edit 2 by Dan on 06/04/2012 at 10:06:28 AM
  • Edit 1 by Dan on 06/04/2012 at 10:06:03 AM
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The Hunger Games gets a ... different kind of review. Artsapat - 03/04/2012 03:37:39 PM 2402 Views
"Written by a female with femalist themes" Vivien - 03/04/2012 04:38:54 PM 1152 Views
Ok, I did and basically it's garbage. *NM* Vivien - 03/04/2012 04:53:00 PM 976 Views
I grant that I haven't read the Hunger Games yet LadyLorraine - 03/04/2012 05:10:38 PM 1109 Views
No, it's totally off. *NM* Aeryn - 03/04/2012 05:39:03 PM 969 Views
fair enough. like I said, I haven't read it yet. *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/04/2012 07:20:34 PM 904 Views
It's not. That's what shallow idiots say about things where women have power or physical skills *NM* Cannoli - 04/04/2012 03:45:22 PM 990 Views
I can only speak for the film, which was not feminist. ironclad - 03/04/2012 06:01:18 PM 1067 Views
Where do I start? Vivien - 03/04/2012 07:43:18 PM 1074 Views
Hermoine was the most kick ass of the Potter kids. MightyYT - 04/04/2012 03:08:17 AM 931 Views
So? Hunger Games has lots of male characters. Vivien - 04/04/2012 05:30:21 AM 990 Views
But that is exactly what feminist means "it could have been a boy just as well" Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:42:43 PM 1069 Views
His racism point... Artsapat - 04/04/2012 02:32:43 PM 889 Views
Makes me almost wish I knew the source material so I could judge what he is saying A Deathwatch Guard - 03/04/2012 10:50:48 PM 966 Views
Why don't you think the Hunger Games are feminist? Vivien - 03/04/2012 11:17:53 PM 1079 Views
Why would I consider it to be femenist? A Deathwatch Guard - 04/04/2012 01:51:24 AM 974 Views
I just don't consider feminism as something that has to be radical. Vivien - 04/04/2012 05:42:59 AM 1041 Views
Completely agree with your first paragraph ironclad - 04/04/2012 08:22:35 AM 1026 Views
Re: Completely agree with your first paragraph DomA - 04/04/2012 01:43:55 PM 992 Views
To you "feminist" is a dirty word? To me, it means acceptable. Differences in definitions I think Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:50:32 PM 961 Views
Unfortunately truly ordinary female characters are so rare that the exceptions stand out Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:49:16 PM 1020 Views
Fair enough ironclad - 04/04/2012 02:33:22 PM 1070 Views
Stop using female as a noun! Vivien - 04/04/2012 03:51:13 PM 969 Views
It's stuff like that that makes you lose cred ironclad - 04/04/2012 05:26:24 PM 993 Views
It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. Legolas - 04/04/2012 07:30:18 PM 967 Views
I don't think Jens was really using it that way, though LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 07:34:28 PM 893 Views
Thank you! ironclad - 04/04/2012 08:03:38 PM 1001 Views
Of course he didn't intend it that way, but that's how it sounds. Legolas - 04/04/2012 08:06:03 PM 983 Views
I understand that, but it's still such a ridiculous thing to get fussed over LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 09:20:01 PM 1030 Views
You are rather exaggerating just how "fussed" anyone did get, you do realize. Legolas - 04/04/2012 09:51:22 PM 935 Views
Her tone was not just "informative". It was accusatory LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:17:57 PM 909 Views
Female is perfectly acceptable to use in a medical/clinical setting. *NM* Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:36:57 PM 1144 Views
so if your problem is people using it disparagingly... LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:45:10 PM 876 Views
That's not what I said. Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:51:41 PM 1009 Views
I'm going to have to just outright disagree with you then. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:54:25 PM 939 Views
Which flies in the face of it's ordinary usage, which smacks of needless revisionism. Dan - 06/04/2012 09:42:15 AM 945 Views
Oh please. Stop telling females to shut up. *NM* Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:45:58 PM 1022 Views
If I wanted to be accusatory... Vivien - 04/04/2012 11:05:37 PM 953 Views
Accusatory of what.i think you meant annoyed. So youre annoyed she was annoyed? Let's out this to re *NM* Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:44:17 PM 1015 Views
Are you a native English speaker, Legolas? (Clarified to preempt possible internet tears) Dan - 06/04/2012 09:29:28 AM 974 Views
Nope. (edit) Legolas - 06/04/2012 07:23:54 PM 983 Views
Re: Nope. (edit) Dan - 07/04/2012 04:51:30 AM 1044 Views
"Female that"? That's even worse. Legolas - 07/04/2012 11:42:00 AM 915 Views
Ok. Dan - 07/04/2012 03:27:16 PM 1226 Views
Let's try and whittle this down some so as to help you with the quotes. Legolas - 07/04/2012 05:42:32 PM 928 Views
However he meant it, it was unpleasant to read. Just use "woman" instead. *NM* Aeryn - 05/04/2012 08:13:13 PM 879 Views
Re: It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. DomA - 05/04/2012 02:21:21 AM 983 Views
I think the language difference is really interesting. nossy - 05/04/2012 03:13:03 PM 980 Views
English is not French, and it's not German. Particularly the connotations of American English words Dan - 06/04/2012 09:39:00 AM 1067 Views
LOL! You don't say... DomA - 06/04/2012 05:06:20 PM 952 Views
LOL u so mad Dan - 06/04/2012 06:19:28 PM 936 Views
The prospect of "losing cred" is not going to stop me from speaking my mind. Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:30:03 PM 942 Views
My dear Aeryn - 09/04/2012 01:07:34 PM 1000 Views
LOL ironclad - 09/04/2012 01:57:53 PM 820 Views
guess what, it is a noun. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 07:26:39 PM 809 Views
That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. nossy - 04/04/2012 08:19:02 PM 953 Views
well it's important that you say "female human" LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 09:28:45 PM 934 Views
Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:48:07 PM 920 Views
wait, so now you're claiming it's a grammatical thing? *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:58:31 PM 939 Views
No, I have issues with words that begin with the letter f. Vivien - 04/04/2012 11:09:45 PM 968 Views
ooookay then. LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 11:11:23 PM 1012 Views
Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. nossy - 05/04/2012 02:08:26 AM 991 Views
Re: Stop using female as a noun! dacole - 05/04/2012 02:18:47 PM 871 Views
If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here. Vivien - 05/04/2012 05:59:16 PM 914 Views
For the record, I certainly don't think you're crazy town. nossy - 05/04/2012 07:23:18 PM 936 Views
Oh, so now we're using 'dislike' instead of 'should'. It's funny how you fell back on that. Dan - 06/04/2012 10:01:59 AM 957 Views
Fascinating. Vivien - 06/04/2012 09:54:47 PM 973 Views
Re: Fascinating. Dan - 07/04/2012 03:54:26 AM 954 Views
Just in case (however slim that chance may be) you are genuinely interested in citations/references. Vivien - 07/04/2012 05:34:37 AM 952 Views
What a joke. Do you even know what grammar is? Dan - 07/04/2012 05:57:40 AM 1014 Views
Oh, come off it. This should be the point where you admit to being wrong. Legolas - 07/04/2012 12:11:07 PM 891 Views
Sorry, no. Read better. Dan - 07/04/2012 02:23:10 PM 923 Views
*deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. Legolas - 07/04/2012 06:38:08 PM 918 Views
Re: *deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. Dan - 07/04/2012 09:26:34 PM 1055 Views
Aha, we found the problem Aeryn - 09/04/2012 01:03:35 PM 1030 Views
You're being disingenuous. Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:57:38 PM 937 Views
Re: If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here. dacole - 09/04/2012 03:09:06 AM 939 Views
Nothing wrong with your use of female. You should ignore those crazy foreigners saying otherwise. *NM* snoopcester - 06/04/2012 02:49:41 PM 817 Views
I think I'll start saying males instead of men. If the males here don't mind? *NM* Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:58:54 PM 935 Views
To be fair Artsapat - 04/04/2012 02:37:25 PM 967 Views
You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:46:16 PM 994 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive Artsapat - 04/04/2012 02:23:33 PM 938 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive Bored - 04/04/2012 07:51:46 PM 943 Views
This Cannoli - 05/04/2012 12:20:04 AM 938 Views
Interesting. I really need to read these books soon, evidently. *NM* Legolas - 03/04/2012 10:52:43 PM 902 Views
I got half way through the review and got bored. MightyYT - 04/04/2012 03:09:58 AM 925 Views
And it appears the writer of the article completely missed a central point of the story *spoilers* Mat Maniac - 04/04/2012 05:44:40 AM 979 Views
I think that might be debatable Cannoli - 05/04/2012 06:59:35 PM 963 Views
She still made plenty of choices and she did choose to kill. Vivien - 05/04/2012 07:13:47 PM 904 Views
The reviewer is kind of full of it, but makes a good point about the character Cannoli - 04/04/2012 04:22:30 PM 1010 Views
Out of curiosity (this off topic) LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 07:32:25 PM 909 Views
Rachel, of course. Cannoli - 05/04/2012 12:17:41 AM 990 Views
Well. Now I've actually seen it. (mild spoilers) Legolas - 09/04/2012 12:17:03 AM 1008 Views
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