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Are you a native English speaker, Legolas? (Clarified to preempt possible internet tears) Dan Send a noteboard - 06/04/2012 09:29:28 AM
I'm not asking if you speak very well well, or have a functionally perfect grasp of the language, or if you have spent your whole life speaking and listening to English. Because you speak with some pretty pretentious authority about what a word's connotations are.

(I'm going to preemptively put a copy/paste edit in here from below to clarify)

I'll probably get some flack for this, but frankly, it should be emphasized more. I'm not being a bigot, I am saying the following. Despite the fact that Americans eat cheeseburgers and hate healthcare, American English is in fact a very complex and nuanced language that people ought to respect just a bit more, particularly with issues this subtle. It should be afforded the same respect as Japanese or Attic Greek. Being raised here does matter in some of these liminal cases. Being intelligent, watching movies, and reading books will not help someone on an issue that is this complex. You need to be a native speaker living here.


So I think Vivien was quite justified to point it out.
He was using it as I'd use it. To define a group's gender. It's all-inclusive and accurate to use as a term.

So is "women", and that does not create connotations of animals or people reduced to what happens to be between their legs.
Sure, he could have used "women" or "girls" but, in my opinion, big fucking difference... but that is just my opinion. I tend not to get my feathers all ruffled over such little things.

I suppose we all have our priorities, things that we consider "little" that others find pretty big, or the other way around. What's clear is that since Jens doesn't intend to give offense, using another word would be the smart thing to do.
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This message last edited by Dan on 06/04/2012 at 10:06:28 AM
  • Edit 2 by Dan on 06/04/2012 at 10:06:28 AM
  • Edit 1 by Dan on 06/04/2012 at 10:06:03 AM
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The Hunger Games gets a ... different kind of review. Artsapat - 03/04/2012 03:37:39 PM 2132 Views
"Written by a female with femalist themes" Vivien - 03/04/2012 04:38:54 PM 930 Views
Ok, I did and basically it's garbage. *NM* Vivien - 03/04/2012 04:53:00 PM 744 Views
I grant that I haven't read the Hunger Games yet LadyLorraine - 03/04/2012 05:10:38 PM 870 Views
No, it's totally off. *NM* Aeryn - 03/04/2012 05:39:03 PM 734 Views
fair enough. like I said, I haven't read it yet. *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/04/2012 07:20:34 PM 685 Views
It's not. That's what shallow idiots say about things where women have power or physical skills *NM* Cannoli - 04/04/2012 03:45:22 PM 774 Views
I can only speak for the film, which was not feminist. ironclad - 03/04/2012 06:01:18 PM 843 Views
Where do I start? Vivien - 03/04/2012 07:43:18 PM 843 Views
Hermoine was the most kick ass of the Potter kids. MightyYT - 04/04/2012 03:08:17 AM 713 Views
So? Hunger Games has lots of male characters. Vivien - 04/04/2012 05:30:21 AM 766 Views
But that is exactly what feminist means "it could have been a boy just as well" Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:42:43 PM 830 Views
His racism point... Artsapat - 04/04/2012 02:32:43 PM 653 Views
Makes me almost wish I knew the source material so I could judge what he is saying A Deathwatch Guard - 03/04/2012 10:50:48 PM 754 Views
Why don't you think the Hunger Games are feminist? Vivien - 03/04/2012 11:17:53 PM 859 Views
Why would I consider it to be femenist? A Deathwatch Guard - 04/04/2012 01:51:24 AM 739 Views
I just don't consider feminism as something that has to be radical. Vivien - 04/04/2012 05:42:59 AM 821 Views
Completely agree with your first paragraph ironclad - 04/04/2012 08:22:35 AM 800 Views
Re: Completely agree with your first paragraph DomA - 04/04/2012 01:43:55 PM 764 Views
To you "feminist" is a dirty word? To me, it means acceptable. Differences in definitions I think Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:50:32 PM 749 Views
Unfortunately truly ordinary female characters are so rare that the exceptions stand out Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:49:16 PM 788 Views
Fair enough ironclad - 04/04/2012 02:33:22 PM 834 Views
Stop using female as a noun! Vivien - 04/04/2012 03:51:13 PM 757 Views
It's stuff like that that makes you lose cred ironclad - 04/04/2012 05:26:24 PM 757 Views
It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. Legolas - 04/04/2012 07:30:18 PM 749 Views
I don't think Jens was really using it that way, though LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 07:34:28 PM 685 Views
Thank you! ironclad - 04/04/2012 08:03:38 PM 784 Views
Of course he didn't intend it that way, but that's how it sounds. Legolas - 04/04/2012 08:06:03 PM 762 Views
I understand that, but it's still such a ridiculous thing to get fussed over LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 09:20:01 PM 809 Views
You are rather exaggerating just how "fussed" anyone did get, you do realize. Legolas - 04/04/2012 09:51:22 PM 722 Views
Her tone was not just "informative". It was accusatory LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:17:57 PM 699 Views
Female is perfectly acceptable to use in a medical/clinical setting. *NM* Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:36:57 PM 931 Views
so if your problem is people using it disparagingly... LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:45:10 PM 668 Views
That's not what I said. Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:51:41 PM 780 Views
I'm going to have to just outright disagree with you then. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:54:25 PM 713 Views
Which flies in the face of it's ordinary usage, which smacks of needless revisionism. Dan - 06/04/2012 09:42:15 AM 702 Views
Oh please. Stop telling females to shut up. *NM* Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:45:58 PM 748 Views
If I wanted to be accusatory... Vivien - 04/04/2012 11:05:37 PM 732 Views
Accusatory of what.i think you meant annoyed. So youre annoyed she was annoyed? Let's out this to re *NM* Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:44:17 PM 774 Views
Are you a native English speaker, Legolas? (Clarified to preempt possible internet tears) Dan - 06/04/2012 09:29:28 AM 745 Views
Nope. (edit) Legolas - 06/04/2012 07:23:54 PM 747 Views
Re: Nope. (edit) Dan - 07/04/2012 04:51:30 AM 812 Views
"Female that"? That's even worse. Legolas - 07/04/2012 11:42:00 AM 704 Views
Ok. Dan - 07/04/2012 03:27:16 PM 981 Views
Let's try and whittle this down some so as to help you with the quotes. Legolas - 07/04/2012 05:42:32 PM 698 Views
However he meant it, it was unpleasant to read. Just use "woman" instead. *NM* Aeryn - 05/04/2012 08:13:13 PM 642 Views
Re: It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. DomA - 05/04/2012 02:21:21 AM 763 Views
I think the language difference is really interesting. nossy - 05/04/2012 03:13:03 PM 755 Views
English is not French, and it's not German. Particularly the connotations of American English words Dan - 06/04/2012 09:39:00 AM 822 Views
LOL! You don't say... DomA - 06/04/2012 05:06:20 PM 734 Views
LOL u so mad Dan - 06/04/2012 06:19:28 PM 733 Views
The prospect of "losing cred" is not going to stop me from speaking my mind. Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:30:03 PM 707 Views
My dear Aeryn - 09/04/2012 01:07:34 PM 745 Views
LOL ironclad - 09/04/2012 01:57:53 PM 610 Views
guess what, it is a noun. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 07:26:39 PM 596 Views
That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. nossy - 04/04/2012 08:19:02 PM 710 Views
well it's important that you say "female human" LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 09:28:45 PM 722 Views
Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. Vivien - 04/04/2012 10:48:07 PM 710 Views
wait, so now you're claiming it's a grammatical thing? *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 10:58:31 PM 719 Views
No, I have issues with words that begin with the letter f. Vivien - 04/04/2012 11:09:45 PM 745 Views
ooookay then. LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 11:11:23 PM 802 Views
Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. nossy - 05/04/2012 02:08:26 AM 783 Views
Re: Stop using female as a noun! dacole - 05/04/2012 02:18:47 PM 668 Views
If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here. Vivien - 05/04/2012 05:59:16 PM 696 Views
For the record, I certainly don't think you're crazy town. nossy - 05/04/2012 07:23:18 PM 718 Views
Oh, so now we're using 'dislike' instead of 'should'. It's funny how you fell back on that. Dan - 06/04/2012 10:01:59 AM 726 Views
Fascinating. Vivien - 06/04/2012 09:54:47 PM 760 Views
Re: Fascinating. Dan - 07/04/2012 03:54:26 AM 725 Views
Just in case (however slim that chance may be) you are genuinely interested in citations/references. Vivien - 07/04/2012 05:34:37 AM 737 Views
What a joke. Do you even know what grammar is? Dan - 07/04/2012 05:57:40 AM 773 Views
Oh, come off it. This should be the point where you admit to being wrong. Legolas - 07/04/2012 12:11:07 PM 677 Views
Sorry, no. Read better. Dan - 07/04/2012 02:23:10 PM 710 Views
*deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. Legolas - 07/04/2012 06:38:08 PM 705 Views
Re: *deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. Dan - 07/04/2012 09:26:34 PM 793 Views
Aha, we found the problem Aeryn - 09/04/2012 01:03:35 PM 774 Views
You're being disingenuous. Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:57:38 PM 701 Views
Re: If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here. dacole - 09/04/2012 03:09:06 AM 726 Views
Nothing wrong with your use of female. You should ignore those crazy foreigners saying otherwise. *NM* snoopcester - 06/04/2012 02:49:41 PM 615 Views
I think I'll start saying males instead of men. If the males here don't mind? *NM* Aeryn - 09/04/2012 12:58:54 PM 677 Views
To be fair Artsapat - 04/04/2012 02:37:25 PM 754 Views
You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive Aeryn - 04/04/2012 01:46:16 PM 772 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive Artsapat - 04/04/2012 02:23:33 PM 727 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive Bored - 04/04/2012 07:51:46 PM 745 Views
This Cannoli - 05/04/2012 12:20:04 AM 722 Views
Interesting. I really need to read these books soon, evidently. *NM* Legolas - 03/04/2012 10:52:43 PM 690 Views
I got half way through the review and got bored. MightyYT - 04/04/2012 03:09:58 AM 700 Views
And it appears the writer of the article completely missed a central point of the story *spoilers* Mat Maniac - 04/04/2012 05:44:40 AM 751 Views
I think that might be debatable Cannoli - 05/04/2012 06:59:35 PM 740 Views
She still made plenty of choices and she did choose to kill. Vivien - 05/04/2012 07:13:47 PM 690 Views
The reviewer is kind of full of it, but makes a good point about the character Cannoli - 04/04/2012 04:22:30 PM 782 Views
Out of curiosity (this off topic) LadyLorraine - 04/04/2012 07:32:25 PM 684 Views
Rachel, of course. Cannoli - 05/04/2012 12:17:41 AM 733 Views
Well. Now I've actually seen it. (mild spoilers) Legolas - 09/04/2012 12:17:03 AM 795 Views
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