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Is Luke still the hero? As loud as the fans may be, you don't get to these numbers with them alone. Legolas Send a noteboard - 31/12/2015 07:06:05 PM

View original postAt some point it was Luke instead of Han who crossed Rey's path in TFA. They ended up scraping this and started again because they realized very fast that if Luke tagged along, they wanted it to be about Luke and much the same way the audience would be most interested in what Luke was doing, not Rey and Finn. That's when they decided that Luke had fled and the McGuffin became about finding his whereabouts, not old Jedi temples.

Or maybe they just realized that if they brought in the big hero on the good side from the start, it was difficult to have sufficient growth for Rey and Finn - regardless of audience interest.
View original postAs I'm sure they're aware, they'd have the same problem if they bring back Luke at the center of the action in the next movie. In TFA they walked a fine line with Solo (it worked, though many reviewers still thought Ford stole the show from the young cast...), but knew they could risk it as by the end they killed him, he wouldn't return as a Hero of the Resistance, leaving that role to the new trio.

The next movie, in my view, will be less bound by the old fans' expectations than TFA - and people may be overestimating how much TFA was, to begin with. One way or another, Luke will have to mentor Rey and then get out of the way - killing him off in the finale is one option, albeit perhaps a bit unoriginal.

I don't think the makers/writers are nearly as nostalgic about the characters as the older generations of fans, and both the massive box office success of this movie and Disney's general focus will be pushing them towards the newer viewers - in whose view Han Solo wasn't all that important, nor will Luke be unless the plot requires him to be.

View original postThis makes me believe they intend to confine Luke to the role of mentor (maybe even a very reluctant one. I expect Luke to be fairly "broken", more so than Obi-Wan and Yoda) or "quest giver" (they might bring back this idea of having to investigate old Jedi sites.. maybe Rey doing so for Luke now), which will be much easier now after TFA and a first confrontation between Rey and the First Order than it would have been in TFA, with Rey barely discovered by Luke. We'll no doubt see more of him with Rey, but I'm not quite sure he'll agree to return to the Resistance and Leia.

Sort of agree, although if he is indeed 'broken', it's another case of what I said about Kylo Ren in my previous post - not easy to get an audience to buy in to all that backstory if you can't take the time to really show it. And somehow Star Wars doesn't seem like the series to go with extended flashbacks? Old Jedi sites or some other kind of ancient history seems likely - after all, the Force has just 'awakened' again. Which no doubt would be linked one way or another to Snoke and the power sources of the First Order. As I mentioned, I'm probably more familiar with KotOR than with any movies, so I can't help being reminded of the Revan plotline.
View original postI suspect we might have to wait for the third movie to see a reunion of Leia and Luke - at a time the new heroes have advanced a lot more in their respective arcs, but it's just a hunch.

Could go either way, depending on how important Luke remains. If they indeed limit his role, or indeed kill him off during the second movie, it can be earlier.
View original postThe dilemma is that unlike Ben and Yoda (at the time of the OT) Luke used to be the hero, and to the audience he still is. It will be delicate to give the audience enough of Luke but without having him steal the show in a way Yoda or Ben couldn't.

Yeah, I'm not so sure about that, as mentioned above. The emotional side of things, anyway - viewed from a simple plot perspective, you obviously still have the usual mentor problem of nearly every fantasy story. Even if Rey does seem to have remarkably little need for a mentor.

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Star Wars : The Force Awakens review (spoiler free) - 17/12/2015 09:18:26 AM 2085 Views
Love your review! I'm seeing it tomorrow night at 9pm. Can't wait! *NM* - 18/12/2015 01:20:16 AM 663 Views
Some (relatively spoiler free) thoughts - 18/12/2015 12:27:22 PM 1148 Views
I pretty much agree with most of that. - 18/12/2015 01:05:16 PM 1097 Views
Agreed, Driver did a great job..... - 19/12/2015 05:46:44 AM 950 Views
Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 03:04:37 PM 1031 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 04:35:49 PM 875 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 05:51:29 PM 911 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 04:44:36 AM 931 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 07:37:39 PM 929 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 19/12/2015 05:30:13 PM 950 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 20/12/2015 09:51:22 AM 1100 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 21/12/2015 06:31:54 PM 1259 Views
The books... - 21/12/2015 09:05:28 PM 1011 Views
Re: The books... - 22/12/2015 03:12:52 AM 952 Views
In general agreement ** potential Spoilers ** - 19/12/2015 06:06:23 AM 911 Views
There are books? - 19/12/2015 11:19:07 AM 968 Views
Re: There are books? - 19/12/2015 05:41:45 PM 1025 Views
So Darth Plagieus might still be in? Sweet. - 20/12/2015 04:44:21 AM 887 Views
Palpatine's master? - 20/12/2015 02:25:45 PM 886 Views
I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 09:47:16 PM 919 Views
Re: I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 10:05:49 PM 1005 Views
Yeah, I think we're talking about the same one. - 24/12/2015 12:05:57 AM 895 Views
Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens - 19/12/2015 06:07:16 PM 981 Views
I don't think any of that had to be explained. - 19/12/2015 12:16:07 PM 879 Views
I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 19/12/2015 08:22:21 PM 991 Views
Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 06:04:43 AM 1060 Views
Re: Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 08:06:40 PM 862 Views
Re: I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 20/12/2015 10:07:36 AM 965 Views
Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:00:32 PM 1119 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:11:30 PM 1004 Views
You're making me reply to two posts - 18/12/2015 03:29:23 PM 997 Views
The death (spoilers) - 22/12/2015 10:30:05 PM 953 Views
Re: You're making me reply to two posts - 29/12/2015 05:24:39 AM 995 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 29/12/2015 05:19:54 AM 936 Views
I have tickets for tonight - 18/12/2015 04:47:17 PM 963 Views
Arbrams impressed me(spoiler free) - 19/12/2015 05:17:42 AM 1059 Views
'Revenge of the Sith' (3rd prequel) was actually a decent movie - 18/12/2015 10:46:52 PM 987 Views
They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 18/12/2015 11:38:36 PM 939 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 12:19:10 AM 1048 Views
Well - 19/12/2015 05:53:56 AM 889 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 07:46:06 AM 1095 Views
people forget they were kids movies *NM* - 19/12/2015 01:17:10 AM 645 Views
Yeah, people take the whole 'Star Wars' thing too seriously - 19/12/2015 02:59:29 AM 999 Views
BTW, Daniel Craig is totally forgiven for Spectre. He was a Stormtrooper (spoilers for role) - 18/12/2015 11:40:44 PM 893 Views
Yip that's true *NM* - 19/12/2015 07:46:59 AM 622 Views
And Simon Pegg was the alien who ran the trading post Rey always went to *NM* - 20/12/2015 02:30:59 PM 724 Views
I got the impression he was actually her boss or contractor - 28/12/2015 12:48:48 PM 1049 Views
Pretty much... - 29/12/2015 12:08:58 AM 949 Views
Absolutely, yes *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:54:52 PM 678 Views
Just saw it! Holy shit, shit, shit, shit.....it was amazing. - 19/12/2015 05:38:44 AM 950 Views
Loved it (Spoilers) - 19/12/2015 06:16:54 AM 902 Views
Fantastic characters, great entertainment, no originality, no logic - 29/12/2015 03:33:43 AM 941 Views
Your Mom has no originality or logic! *NM* - 29/12/2015 11:39:41 AM 670 Views
JJ Abrams should be able to do better than my Mom - 30/12/2015 04:20:54 AM 870 Views
I gave it a B+ overall but I think the characters are its weak spot - 29/12/2015 05:08:15 PM 797 Views
JJ Abrams' movies are character-driven, Lucas' movies are plot-driven - 30/12/2015 04:38:49 AM 858 Views
Lucas has created some of the most iconics chacters in movie history ? - 31/12/2015 02:29:02 PM 868 Views
So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 10:11:01 AM 950 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 07:10:56 PM 1281 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 09:24:08 PM 910 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 31/12/2015 04:58:24 PM 861 Views
It was fun, and I look forward to the next ones, but can't say I was that wowed. - 30/12/2015 09:26:10 PM 894 Views
Re: It was fun, and I look forward to the next ones, but can't say I was that wowed. - 31/12/2015 05:37:17 PM 805 Views
Is Luke still the hero? As loud as the fans may be, you don't get to these numbers with them alone. - 31/12/2015 07:06:05 PM 835 Views
Why is time for female lead and why does the lef think subtraction is the answer to inequality? - 04/01/2016 01:37:37 PM 735 Views
Because the six other movies had zero female Jedis of any importance? - 04/01/2016 05:58:25 PM 957 Views
Just another check the box movie, then - 04/01/2016 06:02:41 PM 831 Views
Oh, come on. You're really going to complain just because they had a woman and a black guy? - 04/01/2016 11:48:52 PM 920 Views
They are talking abou tmakin ght Gunslinger black - 05/01/2016 02:05:36 PM 869 Views
Yeah, Star Wars is just part of the larger trend. It can't be viewed in a vacuum (pun intended). - 05/01/2016 02:38:34 PM 830 Views
That's not really what I said, you'll note. - 05/01/2016 07:48:08 PM 1041 Views
I don't think it was Disney's business acumen. - 06/01/2016 06:59:46 PM 1106 Views
Wow. That's... sad. - 06/01/2016 09:32:37 PM 957 Views
Re: Wow. That's... sad. - 08/01/2016 03:08:58 AM 938 Views
I am noit sure how well that 7-12 girl demographic will work in merchandising - 08/01/2016 06:30:47 PM 932 Views
Your premise is entirely wrong. - 12/01/2016 05:53:26 AM 867 Views
Actually, they do have a major character who is Latino. - 12/01/2016 07:15:31 PM 889 Views
The culture wars are just about blacks and feminists. - 13/01/2016 02:31:20 AM 914 Views
All that Paul said - 17/01/2016 05:13:59 PM 1513 Views
LOL - 05/01/2016 06:33:50 PM 873 Views
Funny that people use strwmen arguments to make themsleves feel smart - 08/01/2016 04:22:22 PM 948 Views
It's not a straw man - 08/01/2016 04:52:03 PM 916 Views
it was story of a father and son so it makes sense to male leads - 04/01/2016 06:59:33 PM 788 Views
Male leads, sure, but it wasn't just the leads. - 04/01/2016 11:28:12 PM 929 Views
Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 05/01/2016 05:55:51 PM 900 Views
I don't see how it makes sense to compare their roles, but Finn is certainly plenty strong. - 05/01/2016 07:38:05 PM 899 Views
Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 02:52:58 PM 881 Views
Re: Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 05:50:08 PM 893 Views
I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 02:49:44 PM 880 Views
Re: I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 03:26:34 PM 926 Views
The reall issue it looks like Luke sucked as Jedi master - 07/01/2016 07:14:31 PM 859 Views
Sorry, no. - 06/01/2016 06:56:09 PM 938 Views
What a load of crap. - 08/01/2016 10:29:35 AM 850 Views
I only partially agree - 08/01/2016 03:27:10 PM 896 Views
Sorry if science isn't your thing but no what I said is true - 09/01/2016 11:49:15 PM 1011 Views
Re: Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 08/01/2016 10:01:16 AM 813 Views
Well said *NM* - 05/01/2016 12:01:25 PM 684 Views
Because it isn't "subtraction"... - 08/01/2016 09:33:24 AM 870 Views
Of course it is - 09/01/2016 10:19:53 PM 836 Views
Okay so about the big bad guy *spoilers* - 05/01/2016 06:27:37 PM 926 Views
I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:07:26 PM 928 Views
Re: I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:42:42 PM 848 Views
What speaks against is for me... - 05/01/2016 10:57:44 PM 1263 Views
Re: What speaks against is for me... - 06/01/2016 10:08:35 AM 994 Views
It's all good stuff, like the first book in a good sci-fi/fantasy trilogy! - 07/01/2016 06:44:45 AM 968 Views
I think it's pretty obvious... - 17/01/2016 07:43:19 AM 969 Views

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