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Re: So, you're not kidding. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 19/05/2010 12:41:09 AM
Stop being hysterical and debate like an adult.


There is no debate going on here. I am apparently instructing you on things you should already know, that I know you know, and yet you claim ignorance of. I have no idea what it is you're doing, but debate is not an appropriate term for it.

The rebellion against Elaida was not due to the lie, it was merely a falsehood Siuan later created and expanded upon to further her own cause to bring down her rival, and to gain the dubious support of the rebel Hall. You've encapsulated the entire White Tower split under this, which is blatantly untrue. Do you think you're dealing with unintelligent people, or do you seriously think I'm less aware of the series than you are?


Nobody ever claimed it was. I know strawmen are easier to vanquish, but how about sticking to actual relevant topics? I noted that the White Tower division was about

politicking for control of either Halls, useless hierarchical crap like Shemerin's demotion, the outrage over stuff like Elaida disbanding the Blue Ajah


and

Aes Sedai cared more about their own squabbling than the end of the world.


The clever reader will notice that this is not at all what you dishonestly accuse me of implying.

We're talking about the present. You're going back to the earlier books and referring to those as part of your evidence of 'squabbling'. The split occured in book 4, and the attack on the Black Tower a few books later. The later books show the opinion of the Red Ajah on this - they find the lie scandalous but they're more concerned with the Black Tower (not invasion - but bonding) and the Dragon Reborn. Pevara and Tsutama openly speak about this.


No we're not talking about the present. We're talking, at latest, of the contents of The Gathering Storm, as I corrected two posts ago. As for the Black Tower, I've already addressed this. The entire operation was handled in secret. Pevara recounts in Remember the Old Saying how she had to search for tiny clues to find Red Sisters to involve in the operation. This is not 'the Red Ajah' having greater priorities, it is Tsutama Rath having greater priorities. And good for her. I don't expect every Aes Sedai in the Tower to be an idiot.

I don't know why you've gone off on such a childish tangent about everything. You mentioned that it's about time the Reds mentioned the lie i.e. now that the Tower is reunified. I mentioned that the Reds are much more worried about other events that are taking place. Bringing up what happened six books ago makes no sense, and acting like I'm unfamiliar with the plot is extremely insulting.


Quit your whining and actually read my posts! Do you remember this?

EDIT: Okay, on further thought, I have come to a solution in which you didn't fail to notice or understand a significant portion of the series (which made no sense to me anyway, given that I know that you should be suitably aware of this), is it possible that you, like Cannoli was, are under the assumption that I expect something to happen about this in upcoming books? Because I obviously don't. The perfect timing for this to be addressed was in The Gathering Storm, and I was expressing frustration and incredulity that it was never brought up then, as displayed by my use of past tenses and reference to Elaida (who is now in Seanchan hands).


I make it explicitly cleat that the time to bring it up was The Gathering Storm and that it would not make sense for it to be brought up now. And despite this, you just ridiculously claimed that I expect this to be brought up "now that the Tower is reunified", which is the exact opposite of what I claimed.

And of course it's insulting to treat you like you're unfamiliar with the plot. But when you act like you're unfamiliar with the plot, how am I to treat you? I brought up the only to possibilities I could think of in that post I quoted: either you're ignorant of a core part of the series' plot, or you mistakenly believe that I expect this to happen in the future. I actually expected this to be a simple misunderstanding, but then in response to my query you claim that "[You're] also not deluded about the meaning of [my] post." and continue arguing like you're unfamiliar with the plot? What am I to conclude? How was to guess you'd simply [b]not bothered to read my post[/b] before ranting senselessly?

Speaking of insulting, in the future, please take a second to read the posts you are replying to.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif Sidious - 09/05/2010 06:01:33 PM 5367 Views
The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... Shannow - 09/05/2010 07:07:09 PM 1292 Views
yeah, but then again ... Velveti - 09/05/2010 09:05:36 PM 1020 Views
That's total nonsense... fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 08:34:08 AM 1260 Views
No, THAT's total nonsense... Shannow - 10/05/2010 09:27:41 AM 1141 Views
He raised other issues too Sidious - 10/05/2010 11:04:52 AM 1135 Views
You seem to deal in bad analogies... fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 05:14:47 PM 1145 Views
You've got an irritating manner about you. No wonder you find Aes Sedai so believable. Shannow - 10/05/2010 05:53:00 PM 998 Views
Hello Pot. I'm Kettle. fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 06:41:58 PM 1023 Views
Hello Kettle. I'm Frying pan *NM* darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 03:43:20 PM 552 Views
Hello Frying pan. I'm Skillet. *NM* BlackAdder - 12/05/2010 11:50:33 PM 565 Views
Re: Hello Skillet, I'm a baking sheet can't we all have some cookies and get along? *NM* HyogaRott - 17/05/2010 05:17:24 PM 506 Views
I usually agree about his manner, but he's right here. Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:24:28 AM 1122 Views
All of those people EARNED their positions by being the best, not a compromise candidate for office! Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:36:36 AM 1204 Views
Re: No, THAT's total nonsense... lyringlas - 19/05/2010 04:39:07 PM 1048 Views
Re: The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:23:07 AM 1107 Views
Re: The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... BlackAdder - 12/05/2010 06:33:37 AM 1036 Views
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. BlackAdder - 12/05/2010 06:32:00 AM 1055 Views
Both wonderful characters... Great Lord of Chaos - 10/05/2010 12:49:44 AM 964 Views
They deserved to be deposed and stilled, I think ... Shishka - 10/05/2010 02:47:35 PM 1174 Views
"They"? fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 05:16:54 PM 1077 Views
Good point ... Shishka - 10/05/2010 06:45:52 PM 1233 Views
Re: Good point ... fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 06:49:19 PM 1092 Views
Re: Good point ... DomA - 11/05/2010 03:43:43 PM 1261 Views
Leanne was not an Overseer Nargs - 17/05/2010 02:40:45 AM 1086 Views
Re: "They"? DomA - 11/05/2010 02:53:23 PM 1146 Views
And she was eventually brought in on the secrets as well... Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:38:52 AM 1098 Views
I don't know if I agree with this darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 03:19:20 PM 1115 Views
The thing is ... Shishka - 11/05/2010 09:06:15 PM 1051 Views
I get what you are saying, but the quote is from much earlier darius_sedai - 14/05/2010 03:14:17 PM 866 Views
I totally unagree... Milla - 17/05/2010 11:16:50 AM 1351 Views
I like Leane, and respected Siuan until RJ mauled her character RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/05/2010 05:55:08 PM 1023 Views
She was probably the sacrificial lamb in place of Moiraine Sidious - 10/05/2010 06:25:39 PM 979 Views
The deck was certainly stacked against Siuan from the very beginning darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 02:44:05 PM 1064 Views
This is a main reason I hope Siuan and Leanne get their full strength restored darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 02:25:31 PM 1063 Views
I don't really agree Sidious - 11/05/2010 05:35:44 PM 1017 Views
I see your point and like I said, I think there are certainly other resolutions to the story line darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 06:22:44 PM 1014 Views
Re: I don't really agree DomA - 11/05/2010 06:28:48 PM 1130 Views
I hope so, as well. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/05/2010 05:31:36 PM 1046 Views
Re: Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif orius - 11/05/2010 05:06:51 PM 1614 Views
I'm still annoyed that Siuan is not going to face the consequences of lying about the Reds. Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 05:18:47 AM 1071 Views
In Egwene's defense, it would be hypocritical of her to bring that up after profiting from it Cannoli - 12/05/2010 05:59:57 AM 1061 Views
Oh, I never expected Egwene to do something about this. Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 06:12:35 AM 939 Views
Well she's off forging a relationship with the Asha'man - you know, useful stuff? *NM* Cannoli - 12/05/2010 06:39:04 AM 616 Views
Are you claiming that Pevara was the only woman in the entire Red Ajah to be offended by that lie? *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 07:15:40 AM 560 Views
The Reds aren't petty Sidious - 12/05/2010 04:52:50 PM 927 Views
Are you kidding? Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 06:14:46 PM 1089 Views
Unless of course there is truth to it darius_sedai - 17/05/2010 01:50:27 PM 1068 Views
There is none. Fanatic-Templar - 17/05/2010 07:09:59 PM 1041 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 17/05/2010 08:45:15 PM 954 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 17/05/2010 11:08:05 PM 1092 Views
Re: ... Sidious - 18/05/2010 05:25:33 AM 1030 Views
Seriously, are you kidding? [EDIT] Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 06:06:01 AM 1032 Views
*sigh* Sidious - 18/05/2010 12:30:43 PM 1105 Views
So, you're not kidding. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 09:12:27 PM 970 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. Sidious - 18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM 1003 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. Fanatic-Templar - 19/05/2010 12:41:09 AM 1095 Views
So, Tsutama... fionwe1987 - 19/05/2010 05:29:56 PM 1170 Views
Ugh. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 04:05:43 AM 915 Views
WTF? fionwe1987 - 20/05/2010 05:25:42 PM 985 Views
F-T is right BlackAdder - 19/05/2010 12:32:33 AM 1083 Views
On the minority thing... fionwe1987 - 18/05/2010 04:26:15 PM 1060 Views
That's exactly the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 08:51:45 PM 917 Views
There is no rewriting... fionwe1987 - 18/05/2010 08:57:50 PM 922 Views
Re: There is no rewriting... Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 09:21:31 PM 1026 Views
Really do you have a quote supporting the fact that there has never been a FD supported by a Red? darius_sedai - 18/05/2010 09:39:31 PM 1072 Views
Of course..., I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 10:06:23 PM 878 Views
why so pissy? darius_sedai - 19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM 1055 Views
Sorry. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 04:16:43 AM 976 Views
Re: Sorry. Sidious - 20/05/2010 08:19:13 AM 865 Views
Re: Sorry. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 08:33:54 AM 1112 Views
Re: Sorry. Sidious - 20/05/2010 01:26:47 PM 891 Views
Interesting. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 07:34:45 PM 983 Views
Re: Interesting. Sidious - 21/05/2010 05:07:07 AM 1000 Views
Re: Interesting. Fanatic-Templar - 21/05/2010 06:28:05 AM 936 Views
LOL Sidious - 21/05/2010 02:50:29 PM 941 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 21/05/2010 08:23:08 PM 1126 Views
No worries! I was just caught off guard by your response... sorry for your stress! *NM* darius_sedai - 20/05/2010 10:04:35 PM 653 Views
There may be one explanation... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2010 10:04:46 PM 958 Views
That doesn't make sense. Fanatic-Templar - 13/05/2010 10:54:53 PM 1105 Views
it was about more than just male channelers darius_sedai - 18/05/2010 09:50:14 PM 1156 Views
Yes, that's true. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 10:07:22 PM 1128 Views
I'm also certain the majority of the Red had no clue/involvement darius_sedai - 20/05/2010 10:24:54 PM 1016 Views
That's also true. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 10:29:11 PM 982 Views
Okay I'm leaving you alone ... you clearly don't want to continue darius_sedai - 20/05/2010 10:31:01 PM 988 Views
Why are they lumped together? Cannoli - 12/05/2010 05:53:51 AM 1270 Views
for practical purposes Sidious - 12/05/2010 04:50:48 PM 949 Views
AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. The Angry Druid - 12/05/2010 10:50:50 PM 982 Views
Re: AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. Watcher - 12/05/2010 11:05:17 PM 1099 Views
No, I don't think so Sidious - 13/05/2010 05:10:03 AM 917 Views
Let's just say we disagree. The Angry Druid - 17/05/2010 11:15:31 PM 1044 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 18/05/2010 04:33:40 PM 1000 Views
Pfft Sidious - 18/05/2010 05:31:16 PM 1027 Views
You don't have to intimidate people to manipulate them. BlackAdder - 19/05/2010 12:46:02 AM 879 Views
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