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You don't have to intimidate people to manipulate them. BlackAdder Send a noteboard - 19/05/2010 12:46:02 AM

I think Siuan is a lesser woman. Even in NS she was better than she is now. She may be a good advisor with a sharp mind, but she's still a shadow of what she was.


If anything, Siuan's own thoughts in tGS should show that she is now a stronger and subtler woman.

As she realizes, she relied too much on her great strength in the Power before. She was manipulative, devious but not very subtle. She could, and did, run roughshod over any opposition.

Weakened, she has been forced to use her mind to its fullest potential. And in the process has realized that power blinds you to those you think are weaker, and allows them to manipulate you.

Even if she does regain her full strength, she's never going to go back to her old ways. With or without that strength, she is now a far more dangerous person, and her experience as a weak nobody has also strengthened her resolve and made her a tough person. I'd actually like to see her meet Cadsuane more than anyone else. Caddy will see right away that here's someone who's almost a match.


To be honest I never thought of Siuan as a function of her channeling. Siuan seems diminished to me. She may be devious but she's a lesser woman than many in Salidar including Egwene, Romanda and Lelaine. I'd go as far to say that Leane has become a stronger woman than Siuan. Seriously, no one really respects her, and Egwene often cuts her off. Maybe it is because they defer to strength in the Power so heavily, but I find that even Gareth Bryne finds her more amusing than intimidating.

Personally I think she was smashed so badly by being stilled and stripped of stole and staff that she'll never completely recover.

Siuan has just found a new way to get people to do what she wants. She's already controlling Romanda and Lelaine (hooray, Egwene's pet managed to smash the only remaining Tower-related obstacle - tyranny here we come!). I'm sure that, if she really tried, she could get Egwene to do what she wants, too.
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Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif Sidious - 09/05/2010 06:01:33 PM 5369 Views
The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... Shannow - 09/05/2010 07:07:09 PM 1293 Views
yeah, but then again ... Velveti - 09/05/2010 09:05:36 PM 1022 Views
That's total nonsense... fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 08:34:08 AM 1260 Views
No, THAT's total nonsense... Shannow - 10/05/2010 09:27:41 AM 1141 Views
He raised other issues too Sidious - 10/05/2010 11:04:52 AM 1136 Views
You seem to deal in bad analogies... fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 05:14:47 PM 1146 Views
You've got an irritating manner about you. No wonder you find Aes Sedai so believable. Shannow - 10/05/2010 05:53:00 PM 1000 Views
Hello Pot. I'm Kettle. fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 06:41:58 PM 1024 Views
Hello Kettle. I'm Frying pan *NM* darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 03:43:20 PM 554 Views
Hello Frying pan. I'm Skillet. *NM* BlackAdder - 12/05/2010 11:50:33 PM 567 Views
Re: Hello Skillet, I'm a baking sheet can't we all have some cookies and get along? *NM* HyogaRott - 17/05/2010 05:17:24 PM 508 Views
I usually agree about his manner, but he's right here. Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:24:28 AM 1125 Views
All of those people EARNED their positions by being the best, not a compromise candidate for office! Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:36:36 AM 1205 Views
Re: No, THAT's total nonsense... lyringlas - 19/05/2010 04:39:07 PM 1050 Views
Re: The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:23:07 AM 1109 Views
Re: The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... BlackAdder - 12/05/2010 06:33:37 AM 1037 Views
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. BlackAdder - 12/05/2010 06:32:00 AM 1056 Views
Both wonderful characters... Great Lord of Chaos - 10/05/2010 12:49:44 AM 964 Views
They deserved to be deposed and stilled, I think ... Shishka - 10/05/2010 02:47:35 PM 1175 Views
"They"? fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 05:16:54 PM 1079 Views
Good point ... Shishka - 10/05/2010 06:45:52 PM 1235 Views
Re: Good point ... fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 06:49:19 PM 1095 Views
Re: Good point ... DomA - 11/05/2010 03:43:43 PM 1261 Views
Leanne was not an Overseer Nargs - 17/05/2010 02:40:45 AM 1088 Views
Re: "They"? DomA - 11/05/2010 02:53:23 PM 1148 Views
And she was eventually brought in on the secrets as well... Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:38:52 AM 1100 Views
I don't know if I agree with this darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 03:19:20 PM 1118 Views
The thing is ... Shishka - 11/05/2010 09:06:15 PM 1052 Views
I get what you are saying, but the quote is from much earlier darius_sedai - 14/05/2010 03:14:17 PM 867 Views
I totally unagree... Milla - 17/05/2010 11:16:50 AM 1351 Views
I like Leane, and respected Siuan until RJ mauled her character RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/05/2010 05:55:08 PM 1025 Views
She was probably the sacrificial lamb in place of Moiraine Sidious - 10/05/2010 06:25:39 PM 981 Views
The deck was certainly stacked against Siuan from the very beginning darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 02:44:05 PM 1066 Views
This is a main reason I hope Siuan and Leanne get their full strength restored darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 02:25:31 PM 1065 Views
I don't really agree Sidious - 11/05/2010 05:35:44 PM 1017 Views
I see your point and like I said, I think there are certainly other resolutions to the story line darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 06:22:44 PM 1014 Views
Re: I don't really agree DomA - 11/05/2010 06:28:48 PM 1131 Views
I hope so, as well. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/05/2010 05:31:36 PM 1049 Views
Re: Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif orius - 11/05/2010 05:06:51 PM 1616 Views
I'm still annoyed that Siuan is not going to face the consequences of lying about the Reds. Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 05:18:47 AM 1071 Views
In Egwene's defense, it would be hypocritical of her to bring that up after profiting from it Cannoli - 12/05/2010 05:59:57 AM 1063 Views
Oh, I never expected Egwene to do something about this. Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 06:12:35 AM 941 Views
Well she's off forging a relationship with the Asha'man - you know, useful stuff? *NM* Cannoli - 12/05/2010 06:39:04 AM 617 Views
Are you claiming that Pevara was the only woman in the entire Red Ajah to be offended by that lie? *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 07:15:40 AM 561 Views
The Reds aren't petty Sidious - 12/05/2010 04:52:50 PM 928 Views
Are you kidding? Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 06:14:46 PM 1090 Views
Unless of course there is truth to it darius_sedai - 17/05/2010 01:50:27 PM 1069 Views
There is none. Fanatic-Templar - 17/05/2010 07:09:59 PM 1043 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 17/05/2010 08:45:15 PM 955 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 17/05/2010 11:08:05 PM 1093 Views
Re: ... Sidious - 18/05/2010 05:25:33 AM 1030 Views
Seriously, are you kidding? [EDIT] Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 06:06:01 AM 1032 Views
*sigh* Sidious - 18/05/2010 12:30:43 PM 1107 Views
So, you're not kidding. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 09:12:27 PM 971 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. Sidious - 18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM 1004 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. Fanatic-Templar - 19/05/2010 12:41:09 AM 1096 Views
So, Tsutama... fionwe1987 - 19/05/2010 05:29:56 PM 1170 Views
Ugh. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 04:05:43 AM 917 Views
WTF? fionwe1987 - 20/05/2010 05:25:42 PM 986 Views
F-T is right BlackAdder - 19/05/2010 12:32:33 AM 1085 Views
On the minority thing... fionwe1987 - 18/05/2010 04:26:15 PM 1062 Views
That's exactly the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 08:51:45 PM 917 Views
There is no rewriting... fionwe1987 - 18/05/2010 08:57:50 PM 923 Views
Re: There is no rewriting... Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 09:21:31 PM 1026 Views
Really do you have a quote supporting the fact that there has never been a FD supported by a Red? darius_sedai - 18/05/2010 09:39:31 PM 1072 Views
Of course..., I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 10:06:23 PM 880 Views
why so pissy? darius_sedai - 19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM 1057 Views
Sorry. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 04:16:43 AM 978 Views
Re: Sorry. Sidious - 20/05/2010 08:19:13 AM 865 Views
Re: Sorry. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 08:33:54 AM 1112 Views
Re: Sorry. Sidious - 20/05/2010 01:26:47 PM 891 Views
Interesting. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 07:34:45 PM 983 Views
Re: Interesting. Sidious - 21/05/2010 05:07:07 AM 1000 Views
Re: Interesting. Fanatic-Templar - 21/05/2010 06:28:05 AM 937 Views
LOL Sidious - 21/05/2010 02:50:29 PM 942 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 21/05/2010 08:23:08 PM 1128 Views
No worries! I was just caught off guard by your response... sorry for your stress! *NM* darius_sedai - 20/05/2010 10:04:35 PM 655 Views
There may be one explanation... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2010 10:04:46 PM 960 Views
That doesn't make sense. Fanatic-Templar - 13/05/2010 10:54:53 PM 1106 Views
it was about more than just male channelers darius_sedai - 18/05/2010 09:50:14 PM 1156 Views
Yes, that's true. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 10:07:22 PM 1130 Views
I'm also certain the majority of the Red had no clue/involvement darius_sedai - 20/05/2010 10:24:54 PM 1016 Views
That's also true. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 10:29:11 PM 984 Views
Okay I'm leaving you alone ... you clearly don't want to continue darius_sedai - 20/05/2010 10:31:01 PM 988 Views
Why are they lumped together? Cannoli - 12/05/2010 05:53:51 AM 1270 Views
for practical purposes Sidious - 12/05/2010 04:50:48 PM 951 Views
AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. The Angry Druid - 12/05/2010 10:50:50 PM 984 Views
Re: AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. Watcher - 12/05/2010 11:05:17 PM 1099 Views
No, I don't think so Sidious - 13/05/2010 05:10:03 AM 919 Views
Let's just say we disagree. The Angry Druid - 17/05/2010 11:15:31 PM 1045 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 18/05/2010 04:33:40 PM 1001 Views
Pfft Sidious - 18/05/2010 05:31:16 PM 1028 Views
You don't have to intimidate people to manipulate them. BlackAdder - 19/05/2010 12:46:02 AM 881 Views
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