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I'm also certain the majority of the Red had no clue/involvement darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 20/05/2010 10:24:54 PM
I mean, it's technically possible that this would happen in future books, but after Egwene goes for her whole 'Healer of Division' routine and nobody in the White Tower had the minimum necessary intellect to bring this up - including the Reds and Elaida - I have very little confidence in this ever being brought up again.


Maybe the Reds, in general, don't want to bring it up because they are worried Siuan will drag out stuff about what they did during the vileness.

During Egwene's debate with Elaida, for example, this was not brought up because Elaida was probably worried that Egwene would bring up the vileness, and she doesn't want the Sitters to remember that now, does she?

Also, the few names we heard from Logain are likely Blacks. For all we know, a few Black-Reds did indeed encourage Logain on orders from the Supreme Council, and people like Pevara just did not know.


The vileness was about killing male channelers on the spot, as far as I recall, not supporting them. But either way, Egwene has already been spreading slanderous accusations against Elaida, why would she fear breaking the holy persona Egwene was building for herself, if the only repercussions would be more of the same? Egwene was the one in danger here - her entire position was built on 'this division of the Tower is an evil thing, I intend to heal it', launching such an accusation, targeted directly at the Reds would reveal her to be just another power-hungry woman ready to turn against fellow Sisters just to get ahead. Her entire platform would have been ruined. Elaida has nothing to lose.

Though to be frank, I don't expect Elaida to have thought this carefully through. She was visibly enraged and acting thoughtlessly, she would not have considered the advantages I've shown any more than she would have considered the possibilities you brought up. She should have just shouted the accusations at Egwene or something.

As for you suggesting the lies are true, you're just grasping at straws. Fabrications are not true until proven false, and there is absolutely nothing to indicate that this is true. Only those deceived by Logain and Siuan ever think of it as true, and that's precisely because they are deceived.

Even if it were true that changes nothing! Elaida is not a Darkfriend, nor are most of the Reds in the Tower.


2 (or 3) Amyrlins and about a dozen senior Sisters (at the least) also died in rapid succession ... and not all killed by the Black ... Chesmal convinced Reds to kill Sieren when she thought she was going to be caught as BA. The vileness went much deeper than a few male channelers being Gentled without trial!


in killing an Amyrlin. Certainly the vast majority of them (meaning all not involved) would be as incensed over this as Pevara was over Siuan's lies. Remember that the true extent of the vileness was Sealed to the Flame.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif - 09/05/2010 06:01:33 PM 5292 Views
The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... - 09/05/2010 07:07:09 PM 1223 Views
yeah, but then again ... - 09/05/2010 09:05:36 PM 985 Views
That's total nonsense... - 10/05/2010 08:34:08 AM 1227 Views
No, THAT's total nonsense... - 10/05/2010 09:27:41 AM 1101 Views
He raised other issues too - 10/05/2010 11:04:52 AM 1099 Views
You seem to deal in bad analogies... - 10/05/2010 05:14:47 PM 1106 Views
You've got an irritating manner about you. No wonder you find Aes Sedai so believable. - 10/05/2010 05:53:00 PM 963 Views
Hello Pot. I'm Kettle. - 10/05/2010 06:41:58 PM 977 Views
Hello Kettle. I'm Frying pan *NM* - 11/05/2010 03:43:20 PM 531 Views
Hello Frying pan. I'm Skillet. *NM* - 12/05/2010 11:50:33 PM 547 Views
I usually agree about his manner, but he's right here. - 12/05/2010 04:24:28 AM 1055 Views
Re: No, THAT's total nonsense... - 19/05/2010 04:39:07 PM 1013 Views
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. - 12/05/2010 06:32:00 AM 1014 Views
Both wonderful characters... - 10/05/2010 12:49:44 AM 930 Views
They deserved to be deposed and stilled, I think ... - 10/05/2010 02:47:35 PM 1140 Views
"They"? - 10/05/2010 05:16:54 PM 1038 Views
Good point ... - 10/05/2010 06:45:52 PM 1183 Views
Re: Good point ... - 10/05/2010 06:49:19 PM 1060 Views
Re: Good point ... - 11/05/2010 03:43:43 PM 1222 Views
Leanne was not an Overseer - 17/05/2010 02:40:45 AM 1054 Views
Re: "They"? - 11/05/2010 02:53:23 PM 1101 Views
And she was eventually brought in on the secrets as well... - 12/05/2010 04:38:52 AM 1062 Views
I don't know if I agree with this - 11/05/2010 03:19:20 PM 1074 Views
The thing is ... - 11/05/2010 09:06:15 PM 1006 Views
I get what you are saying, but the quote is from much earlier - 14/05/2010 03:14:17 PM 837 Views
I totally unagree... - 17/05/2010 11:16:50 AM 1309 Views
I like Leane, and respected Siuan until RJ mauled her character - 10/05/2010 05:55:08 PM 984 Views
She was probably the sacrificial lamb in place of Moiraine - 10/05/2010 06:25:39 PM 945 Views
The deck was certainly stacked against Siuan from the very beginning - 11/05/2010 02:44:05 PM 1003 Views
This is a main reason I hope Siuan and Leanne get their full strength restored - 11/05/2010 02:25:31 PM 1033 Views
I don't really agree - 11/05/2010 05:35:44 PM 974 Views
Re: I don't really agree - 11/05/2010 06:28:48 PM 1077 Views
I hope so, as well. - 13/05/2010 05:31:36 PM 1010 Views
Re: Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif - 11/05/2010 05:06:51 PM 1432 Views
I'm still annoyed that Siuan is not going to face the consequences of lying about the Reds. - 12/05/2010 05:18:47 AM 1029 Views
In Egwene's defense, it would be hypocritical of her to bring that up after profiting from it - 12/05/2010 05:59:57 AM 1021 Views
Oh, I never expected Egwene to do something about this. - 12/05/2010 06:12:35 AM 902 Views
Well she's off forging a relationship with the Asha'man - you know, useful stuff? *NM* - 12/05/2010 06:39:04 AM 597 Views
Are you claiming that Pevara was the only woman in the entire Red Ajah to be offended by that lie? *NM* - 12/05/2010 07:15:40 AM 540 Views
The Reds aren't petty - 12/05/2010 04:52:50 PM 890 Views
Are you kidding? - 12/05/2010 06:14:46 PM 1017 Views
Unless of course there is truth to it - 17/05/2010 01:50:27 PM 1022 Views
There is none. - 17/05/2010 07:09:59 PM 1008 Views
Uhhh? - 17/05/2010 08:45:15 PM 917 Views
... - 17/05/2010 11:08:05 PM 1052 Views
Re: ... - 18/05/2010 05:25:33 AM 990 Views
Seriously, are you kidding? [EDIT] - 18/05/2010 06:06:01 AM 995 Views
*sigh* - 18/05/2010 12:30:43 PM 1058 Views
So, you're not kidding. - 18/05/2010 09:12:27 PM 935 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. - 18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM 970 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. - 19/05/2010 12:41:09 AM 1061 Views
So, Tsutama... - 19/05/2010 05:29:56 PM 1129 Views
Ugh. - 20/05/2010 04:05:43 AM 880 Views
WTF? - 20/05/2010 05:25:42 PM 947 Views
F-T is right - 19/05/2010 12:32:33 AM 1047 Views
On the minority thing... - 18/05/2010 04:26:15 PM 1023 Views
That's exactly the problem. - 18/05/2010 08:51:45 PM 872 Views
There is no rewriting... - 18/05/2010 08:57:50 PM 885 Views
Re: There is no rewriting... - 18/05/2010 09:21:31 PM 986 Views
Really do you have a quote supporting the fact that there has never been a FD supported by a Red? - 18/05/2010 09:39:31 PM 1022 Views
Of course..., I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist. - 18/05/2010 10:06:23 PM 842 Views
why so pissy? - 19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM 1012 Views
Sorry. - 20/05/2010 04:16:43 AM 937 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 08:19:13 AM 835 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 08:33:54 AM 1050 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 01:26:47 PM 854 Views
Interesting. - 20/05/2010 07:34:45 PM 941 Views
Re: Interesting. - 21/05/2010 05:07:07 AM 963 Views
Re: Interesting. - 21/05/2010 06:28:05 AM 898 Views
LOL - 21/05/2010 02:50:29 PM 898 Views
... - 21/05/2010 08:23:08 PM 1091 Views
There may be one explanation... - 13/05/2010 10:04:46 PM 918 Views
That doesn't make sense. - 13/05/2010 10:54:53 PM 1052 Views
it was about more than just male channelers - 18/05/2010 09:50:14 PM 1075 Views
Yes, that's true. - 18/05/2010 10:07:22 PM 1052 Views
I'm also certain the majority of the Red had no clue/involvement - 20/05/2010 10:24:54 PM 947 Views
That's also true. - 20/05/2010 10:29:11 PM 933 Views
Okay I'm leaving you alone ... you clearly don't want to continue - 20/05/2010 10:31:01 PM 935 Views
Why are they lumped together? - 12/05/2010 05:53:51 AM 1217 Views
for practical purposes - 12/05/2010 04:50:48 PM 920 Views
AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. - 12/05/2010 10:50:50 PM 945 Views
Re: AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. - 12/05/2010 11:05:17 PM 1060 Views
No, I don't think so - 13/05/2010 05:10:03 AM 883 Views
Let's just say we disagree. - 17/05/2010 11:15:31 PM 1003 Views
Bah! - 18/05/2010 04:33:40 PM 969 Views
Pfft - 18/05/2010 05:31:16 PM 975 Views
You don't have to intimidate people to manipulate them. - 19/05/2010 12:46:02 AM 815 Views

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