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Bah, hogwash! Etzel Send a noteboard - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM
The question here is not who, but how. Be it Slayer or Graendal or Lanfear, the killer did not follow Asmodean, nor did the killer plan this location for Asmo's death. That is abundantly clear.


Actually we don't know if the killer didn't spy on Asmo before, like Rand could watch him from another place in the palace.

Roadkill, in general usage, means a death that wasn't intended but was the direct result of someone's actions. Say there's a shootout, and someone walking by gets caught in the crossfire, it is legitimate to call them roadkill. That's what RJ meant, that Asmo was never the intended target of the killer (the killer may not have had a target at all). He died because he crossed her/him at the wrong place at the wrong time.


In the context RJ used it, it most likely simply means that Asmo became irrelevant for the story and therefore had to die.

That is total nonsense. If opportunity trumps motive, then that means that said person could not have been hanging around waiting to kill Asmo (even if they might have had a motive to kill him). The moment you make it that the killer was following Asmo around waiting to kill him, then you have to make it that motive trumps opportunity, which is directly against what RJ said.


It means that the killer had a general motive to kill Asmo, but only because of the right opportunity did it happen.

No. It means that the killer was in the pantry, and when he saw Asmo defenseless and unprepared, she/he took the opportunity to strike. If Asmo hadn't opened the door, nothing would have happened.


That the killer was simply in the room, where Asmo entered, doesn't explain at all why we should focus on timing. If Asmo hadn't opened the door, the killer had probably tried again sometime later, if there is another good opportunity.

And you say you're not obsessed with wanting the killer to be Slayer?


RJ clearly says that a non-channeler had succeeded in killing Asmo. This refutes the idea that only a channeler could have killed him.
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An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds Etzel - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2771 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... GateKeeper - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1460 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 785 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... FanEditor10 - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1263 Views
It's not really obvious... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 1202 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 1138 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM 710 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM* newyorkersedai - 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM 691 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM 1267 Views
Far-fetched, IMO DomA - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1574 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 809 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1265 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1378 Views
Bah, hogwash! Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1227 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! DomA - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1246 Views
The point is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1305 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1357 Views
As is Slayer Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 1233 Views
There is no evidence of this at all darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 1175 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 1163 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 1191 Views
I disagree. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1313 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... DomA - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1257 Views
I think this is your interpretation Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 1196 Views
Yeah right... fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1312 Views
See my replies above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 1099 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 1089 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 1061 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1409 Views
We often see... Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1259 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1352 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1353 Views
Agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 734 Views
Indeed Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 1199 Views
Well... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1272 Views
Re: Well... darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1260 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 1182 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1248 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 1209 Views
common sense? darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 1200 Views
See my posts above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1215 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1376 Views
No... Etzel - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1265 Views
let's try this another way darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1259 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 1180 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1285 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... DomA - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1327 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1409 Views
RJ used the expression... Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 1190 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1299 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 1170 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer DomA - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 1242 Views
Couple of questions scalius - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1267 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 1093 Views
Hmmm scalius - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1228 Views
Re: Hmmm RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 1095 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 1128 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 1198 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1291 Views
We've seen it done. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 1133 Views
Not the same thing darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 1137 Views
Re: Couple of questions DomA - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1289 Views
As said... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1224 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* Tom - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 622 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Etzel - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1244 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 1230 Views
But look... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1239 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 1144 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 1217 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1241 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1264 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 1146 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 1211 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM 1226 Views
??? Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 1179 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 1215 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 987 Views
Indeed Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 1131 Views
Re: Indeed darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 1120 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM 1150 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM 1130 Views
LOL!! Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 947 Views
Too much? Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 1211 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO saidarisnowtainted - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1322 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 748 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? saidarisnowtainted - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 1026 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken darius_sedai - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1224 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken saidarisnowtainted - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1458 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book darius_sedai - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 943 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book saidarisnowtainted - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1366 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 1159 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds DomA - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 1158 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... trzaska2000 - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 1143 Views
Doesn't make sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 1165 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 1083 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM 700 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* Knightscape - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 756 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1208 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes. trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM 1174 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM 702 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM 1232 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM* newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM 796 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 1158 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 1188 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 1161 Views
Well, I don't think so. Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 1186 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1247 Views
Again... Etzel - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1241 Views
Taking things NO darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1215 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 1044 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 1047 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 1103 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 1081 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 1095 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 1057 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 736 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 1003 Views
I'm relieved then... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 1010 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 1140 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1315 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 1181 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. Seriana Sedai - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 1102 Views
That's always been my theory too Sidious - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 1212 Views
*nods* darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1214 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too Seriana Sedai - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 1130 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... trzaska2000 - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 1100 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. TaskmasterJack - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 1138 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity darius_sedai - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 1122 Views
That is simply false. Etzel - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 1190 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1262 Views
Of course, it is false Etzel - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 1175 Views
Here are the quotes darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 1106 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 730 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 1008 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 596 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 788 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 1175 Views
Well... Etzel - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 1163 Views
Logic darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 1118 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... DomA - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 1124 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 760 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns Sidious - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1236 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 1106 Views
That reminds me... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 1127 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 1172 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 1113 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 1228 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 1171 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 1266 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 1203 Views
That are just semantics Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1264 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 1143 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 1129 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 1199 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1238 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 1198 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 1273 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1283 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 1030 Views
um no it's not darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 1119 Views
It's told after that... Etzel - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 1081 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1231 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 1157 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 1167 Views
Ah, whatever... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 1085 Views
We are on the exact same page darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 1130 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page Sidious - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 1226 Views
LMAO darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1575 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 1142 Views
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