Active Users:1188 Time:03/05/2026 02:10:43 PM
Indeed Sidious Send a noteboard - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM
There are too many flaws in Etzel's theory to mention, but I'll start with the most obvious.

1. Etzel does believe it was Graendal, except that she used Slayer. Therefore he uses Graendal evidence to build his Slayer theory. Erroneous!

2. Slayer can kill anyone with time, true. He has been hired to kill Rand, the most powerful man in the world, and the most dangerous. However, his tactics are very different. He sneaks up when Rand is asleep and stabs him dozens of times with a poisoned dagger. His tactic would accomodate the level of danger he faces, and all the Forsaken would consider Asmodean to be as dangerous as them, as would Slayer. He would thus not openly attack one of the Forsaken who could channel in a second. The gamble would be enormous, and Slayer has shown that he doesn't work this way.

3. The Forsaken would not hire him to kill one of their own. There is no chance that they consider Slayer to be their equal, even if they're wrong. Despite the fact that they despise one another, they disdain all 3rd Age channelers (even Rand), and don't even consider non-channelers. Even with his gifts, none of them truly consider him to be dangerous to the point of being able to kill one of them. Only Lanfear knows that Asmodean is shielded. It's like Semirhage hiring Slayer to kill Mesaana for her - she would consider it a failure from the beginning. Logically, the Forsaken would go after him themselves. Sammael directly says as much to Graendal.

4. Asmodean could kill Slayer in moments, even with his reduced strength. He had enough saidin to battle the Trollocs in Caemlyn, and was about as strong as a Wise One according to Rand. We've seen Moghedien weave in an instant. To think that he'd go pale and cry out in terror at the sight of a non-channeler assassin is laughable. If he ran into one of his peers though, he would know from the beginning that his life was over.

For the record, I say he accidentally ran into Graendal. She got a huge fright and so did he. She balefired him. He would have done the same if he had enough power.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
This message last edited by Sidious on 28/05/2010 at 08:40:58 AM
Reply to message
An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2803 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1494 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 801 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1293 Views
It's not really obvious... - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 1231 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 1172 Views
Far-fetched, IMO - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1601 Views
very well said *NM* - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 836 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1306 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1403 Views
Bah, hogwash! - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1257 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1283 Views
The point is... - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1339 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1389 Views
As is Slayer - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 1268 Views
There is no evidence of this at all - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 1207 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 1192 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 1224 Views
I disagree. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1340 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1289 Views
I think this is your interpretation - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 1223 Views
Yeah right... - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1339 Views
See my replies above. *NM* - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 1129 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 1118 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 1091 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1440 Views
We often see... - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1288 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1380 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1378 Views
Agreed *NM* - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 749 Views
Indeed - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 1234 Views
Well... - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1299 Views
Re: Well... - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1293 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 1212 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1279 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 1234 Views
common sense? - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 1233 Views
See my posts above. *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1249 Views
Re: Well... - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1410 Views
No... - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1294 Views
let's try this another way - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1292 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 1211 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1314 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1360 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1443 Views
RJ used the expression... - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 1215 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1328 Views
Re: No... - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 1200 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 1280 Views
Couple of questions - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1295 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 1132 Views
Hmmm - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1258 Views
Re: Hmmm - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 1128 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 1161 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 1227 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1323 Views
We've seen it done. - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 1160 Views
Not the same thing - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 1170 Views
Re: Couple of questions - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1324 Views
As said... - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1256 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 644 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1277 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 1258 Views
But look... - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1267 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 1184 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 1241 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1269 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1294 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 1173 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 1240 Views
??? - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 1210 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 1244 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 1014 Views
Indeed - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 1160 Views
Re: Indeed - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 1155 Views
LOL!! - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 976 Views
Too much? - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 1240 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1348 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 766 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 1051 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1255 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1481 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 971 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1392 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 1190 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 1187 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 1165 Views
Doesn't make sense - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 1202 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 1112 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 770 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1235 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 1189 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 1221 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 1194 Views
Well, I don't think so. - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 1213 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1275 Views
Again... - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1283 Views
Taking things NO - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1242 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 1076 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 1075 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 1140 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 1111 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 1126 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 1086 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 748 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 1030 Views
I'm relieved then... - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 1039 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 1170 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1359 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 1208 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 1129 Views
That's always been my theory too - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 1241 Views
*nods* - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1243 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 1157 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 1128 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 1168 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 1150 Views
That is simply false. - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 1220 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1290 Views
Of course, it is false - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 1203 Views
Here are the quotes - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 1137 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 746 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 1051 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 616 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 803 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 1204 Views
Well... - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 1187 Views
Logic - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 1150 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 1156 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 774 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1261 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 1140 Views
That reminds me... - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 1156 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 1197 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 1143 Views
Yeah... - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 1254 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 1200 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 1348 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 1232 Views
That are just semantics - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1290 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 1171 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 1157 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 1223 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1267 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 1231 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 1300 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1313 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 1054 Views
um no it's not - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 1146 Views
It's told after that... - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 1112 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1258 Views
Yeah... - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 1184 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 1200 Views
Ah, whatever... - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 1123 Views
We are on the exact same page - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 1155 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 1259 Views
LMAO - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1608 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 1167 Views

Reply to Message