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Re: Well... Sidious Send a noteboard - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM

The question was always only, who directly killed Asmo by his hands in that scene. IMO, Slayer did this. It's not erroneous to assume then, that he was hired by a Forsaken to do that.


Indeed, except that you use the evidence of Graendal as some of the concrete evidence for your theory.

It's quite telling that Slayer offers to try again killing Rand, though he must be aware that Rand won't still be in a situation like in Far Madding. We also saw Slayer attacking other strong channelers, e.g. Nynaeve. The key is simply timing, surprise and a quick deadly weapon (like a bolt/knife with posion). Since RJ said, that Fain would have managed to kill Asmo in this scene, Slayer as an asssassin could do it even more likely. Besides that, BS said there was a scene in TSR, which was cut from the book, that had told more about Slayer's powers. This might indicate that Slayer is more lethal than you believe. Of course, RJ is very aware of what Slayer can do, thus it's obvious to him.


So Slayer would attack Asmodean head on? Despite the fact that I've shown you that he'd only attack Rand in his sleep in a neutralizing city, you still believe he'd attack one of the original thirteen directly? Pfft...

That's absurd. If one of them hires Slayer to kill the strongest channeler on earth in WH, that means after Rand proved that he can take out the strongest Forsaken, they certainly wouldn't think that Slayer can't take the weakest Forsaken Asmo.


He ambushed Rand while he was sleeping in a city where Rand couldn't channel! That's like saying that a man can kill a lion if the lion has no legs, and teeth and is drugged. Therefore he must have killed that able-bodied lying dead over there.

Again, if Fain would have managed it, then Slayer could do it as well. Asmo wasn't prepared at all to met his killer, had idle thoughts on his mind, a harp in his hands and was then completely surprised and scared to met his killer in this place. If you then hit him with a quick deadly weapon, Asmo has no chance.


Except that even if Asmodean was that moronic, Slayer would not be. He's mentioned that he only bows to the Forsaken, implying that they are the greatest threats he knows, and yet we are to believe he attacks one of them head on with poisoned daggers using surprise. That's like betting on the lottery. Worst of all, to think that any of the thirteen would go pale is utter nonsense. Moridin mentions Slayer to them in WH and it hardly stirs a breeze. 'Oooh, the lethal killer is after Fain'... not really. They're much more concerned about other things.

It was more complex than that.

Which you can't base on anything, except a single paragraph that heavily insinuates that it was a crime of opportunity.
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An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds Etzel - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2639 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... GateKeeper - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1384 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 741 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... FanEditor10 - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1185 Views
It's not really obvious... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 1124 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 1030 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM 670 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM* newyorkersedai - 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM 634 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM 1180 Views
Far-fetched, IMO DomA - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1480 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 766 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1166 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1265 Views
Bah, hogwash! Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1129 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! DomA - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1173 Views
The point is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1214 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1266 Views
As is Slayer Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 1124 Views
There is no evidence of this at all darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 1099 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 1070 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 1092 Views
I disagree. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1206 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... DomA - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1162 Views
I think this is your interpretation Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 1107 Views
Yeah right... fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1199 Views
See my replies above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 993 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 988 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 957 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1312 Views
We often see... Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1174 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1244 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1256 Views
Agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 693 Views
Indeed Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 1099 Views
Well... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1174 Views
Re: Well... darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1165 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 1102 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1150 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 1111 Views
common sense? darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 1111 Views
See my posts above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1122 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1268 Views
No... Etzel - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1189 Views
let's try this another way darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1176 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 1095 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1182 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... DomA - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1243 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1309 Views
RJ used the expression... Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 1082 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1186 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 1062 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer DomA - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 1135 Views
Couple of questions scalius - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1161 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 1013 Views
Hmmm scalius - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1132 Views
Re: Hmmm RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 1020 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 1045 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 1105 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1194 Views
We've seen it done. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 1046 Views
Not the same thing darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 1022 Views
Re: Couple of questions DomA - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1194 Views
As said... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1138 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* Tom - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 584 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Etzel - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1150 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 1139 Views
But look... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1164 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 1056 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 1131 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1131 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1181 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 1048 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 1117 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM 1136 Views
??? Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 1096 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 1119 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 891 Views
Indeed Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 1056 Views
Re: Indeed darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 1023 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM 1067 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM 1044 Views
LOL!! Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 860 Views
Too much? Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 1118 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO saidarisnowtainted - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1241 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 699 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? saidarisnowtainted - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 946 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken darius_sedai - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1145 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken saidarisnowtainted - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1366 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book darius_sedai - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 857 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book saidarisnowtainted - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1276 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 1068 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds DomA - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 1080 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... trzaska2000 - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 1046 Views
Doesn't make sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 1085 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 1013 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM 660 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* Knightscape - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 700 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1126 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes. trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM 1069 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM 666 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM 1150 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM* newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM 756 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 1030 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 1100 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 1077 Views
Well, I don't think so. Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 1089 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1166 Views
Again... Etzel - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1163 Views
Taking things NO darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1129 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 966 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 964 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 1023 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 974 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 1024 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 976 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 691 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 910 Views
I'm relieved then... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 916 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 1049 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1175 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 1092 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. Seriana Sedai - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 1018 Views
That's always been my theory too Sidious - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 1122 Views
*nods* darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1135 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too Seriana Sedai - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 1057 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... trzaska2000 - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 1006 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. TaskmasterJack - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 1059 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity darius_sedai - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 1035 Views
That is simply false. Etzel - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 1100 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1152 Views
Of course, it is false Etzel - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 1071 Views
Here are the quotes darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 1001 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 687 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 930 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 548 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 740 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 1094 Views
Well... Etzel - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 1089 Views
Logic darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 1052 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... DomA - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 1046 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 716 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns Sidious - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1157 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 1019 Views
That reminds me... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 1042 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 1083 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 1029 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 1130 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 1084 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 1068 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 1109 Views
That are just semantics Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1186 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 1065 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 1028 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 1115 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1159 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 1119 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 1153 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1195 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 948 Views
um no it's not darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 1040 Views
It's told after that... Etzel - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 998 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1150 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 1083 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 1071 Views
Ah, whatever... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 997 Views
We are on the exact same page darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 1048 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page Sidious - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 1123 Views
LMAO darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1503 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 1062 Views
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