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Re: Couple of questions DomA Send a noteboard - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM
1st) Your post has me wondering just how the DO knew of Asmo's "treachery". The obvious is Lanfear, after her time w/ the Finn, presumably telling of her plan during her later interrogation/mindtrap at SG. Or do you think that Sammy, Grenny or Rhavin spilled the beans? Is there any hard evidence for any one person? I don't recall any.


Asmodean's filter for the taint was destroyed and he never showed up at SG with an explanation, and he wasn't dead.

The Dark One knew Asmodean was either a traitor or a prisoner.

I think he knew more than that. Remember those "supernatural" darkhounds who circled Asmodean's rooms and tried to kill Mat and Rand?

Lanfear claimed Rahvin sent them, which makes absolutely no sense. Rahvin had Melindrah in place to kill Mat, and he intended to go on with Lanfear's plan. So did Sammael, who did his bit to bait Rand to Illian in Cairhien.

Lanfear lied. She told Rand it was Rahvin, the same way she told him before some Forsaken wouldn't wait to come and kill him (including Moghedien, of all people!). She wanted Rand to feel he was surrounded and joining her side was his only way out. Eventually she would have told him Rahvin, Sammael and Graendal had ally against him and Asmodean would have confirmed that his only chance to defeat them was to link with Lanfear.

So who sent those "super" DH, and were they really a new breed? I don't think they were a new breed at all. I don't think any DH but these two can recreate themselves out of a pool of blood and the True Power a near godly feat, and Rand was right they stood over the OP symbol on purpose, in defiance, in hatred of the OP IMO. Not your typical Shadowspawn behaviour. What I think happened is that those DH were similar to Shaidar Haran, the other "super" shadowspawn. They were part of Shai'tan, a small part of Shai'tan,s will was impressed on them. Shai'tan tracked down Asmodean to the place where he got his filter destroyed, and saw he was no prisoner. And he tried to confront Rand, and got his asses whooped with balefire.

Mind you, I think Shai'tan must have gotten the "whole story" from Asmodean's killer later, or at least from Sammael (maybe) and Graendal (for sure) but then I'm sure it's one of the two who killed Asmo, and it's not Sammael... After Lanfear, Moghedien, Rahvin and Asmodean "died" all on the same day, Graendal and Sammael had to cover their asses. I think Sammael delayed because he believed Lanfear had betrayed them, and didn't see the urgency to report. Graendal, however, knew something had gone very wrong with a plan in which she was involved, and she went to Shai'tan before Shai'tan called them to get explanations. Furthermore, she had a good news for him: Asmodean had made al'Thor very dangerous, and they failed to capture Rand despite their alliance and maybe Lanfear and Moghedien have died beside Rahvin, but at least she had gone to Caemlyn to investigate what happened and managed to kill Asmodean while there.

Demandred in LOC is puzzled that Shai'tan already knows the news he brought. Someone went to report to SG before Demandred did the day after Rahvin's death.


don't we have to assume that Asmo was able to identify the weave as it was being formed? Assuming BF was used, I'm going to guess that it travels at the speed of light, and from a few feet away it doesn't seem plausible that Asmo would have time to get out any words as the BF was streaking towards him.


I think you make it complex for nothing. The killer obviously already held the source (she had a few seconds of forewarning that someone was coming in), but Asmodean had the time to see the weave forming. He didn't say "No!" first, so I'd presume he saw the person first and the weave still forming after.

He didn't sensed the weave (saidar or saidin), he saw balefire forming.

I think it's balefire notably because he said "No!" instead of spending that second defending himself. Mind you, that can also simply point to his shock or slow reflexes, or perhaps he couldn't channel enough to defend himself from the weave he saw forming (but if it was saidar, he wouldn't see the other killing weaves but the fireball type, or balefire and the other weaves that have a visible effect when they form).



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An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2733 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1441 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 775 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1241 Views
It's not really obvious... - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 1175 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 1106 Views
Far-fetched, IMO - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1552 Views
very well said *NM* - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 801 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1235 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1351 Views
Bah, hogwash! - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1195 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1223 Views
The point is... - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1281 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1332 Views
As is Slayer - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 1197 Views
There is no evidence of this at all - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 1151 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 1135 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 1164 Views
I disagree. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1276 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1228 Views
I think this is your interpretation - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 1174 Views
Yeah right... - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1284 Views
See my replies above. *NM* - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 1073 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 1051 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 1033 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1380 Views
We often see... - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1231 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1317 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1321 Views
Agreed *NM* - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 726 Views
Indeed - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 1171 Views
Well... - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1241 Views
Re: Well... - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1237 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 1163 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1219 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 1181 Views
common sense? - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 1171 Views
See my posts above. *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1190 Views
Re: Well... - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1349 Views
No... - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1240 Views
let's try this another way - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1233 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 1153 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1259 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1302 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1377 Views
RJ used the expression... - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 1162 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1263 Views
Re: No... - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 1137 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 1213 Views
Couple of questions - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1231 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 1070 Views
Hmmm - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1199 Views
Re: Hmmm - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 1071 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 1096 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 1175 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1263 Views
We've seen it done. - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 1112 Views
Not the same thing - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 1104 Views
Re: Couple of questions - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1263 Views
As said... - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1194 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 610 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1215 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 1199 Views
But look... - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1215 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 1115 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 1185 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1210 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1240 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 1122 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 1185 Views
??? - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 1154 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 1186 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 955 Views
Indeed - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 1106 Views
Re: Indeed - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 1088 Views
LOL!! - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 920 Views
Too much? - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 1186 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1293 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 736 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 999 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1197 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1430 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 913 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1339 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 1127 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 1129 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 1109 Views
Doesn't make sense - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 1137 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 1065 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 743 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1188 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 1128 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 1155 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 1133 Views
Well, I don't think so. - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 1161 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1225 Views
Again... - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1220 Views
Taking things NO - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1191 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 1012 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 1018 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 1079 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 1045 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 1069 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 1031 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 727 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 976 Views
I'm relieved then... - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 981 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 1117 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1271 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 1149 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 1070 Views
That's always been my theory too - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 1179 Views
*nods* - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1185 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 1107 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 1069 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 1118 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 1087 Views
That is simply false. - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 1167 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1240 Views
Of course, it is false - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 1147 Views
Here are the quotes - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 1079 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 723 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 982 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 588 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 779 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 1150 Views
Well... - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 1138 Views
Logic - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 1099 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 1098 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 752 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1212 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 1084 Views
That reminds me... - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 1100 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 1145 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 1088 Views
Yeah... - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 1201 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 1151 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 1197 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 1176 Views
That are just semantics - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1241 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 1121 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 1103 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 1166 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1211 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 1178 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 1246 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1256 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 1005 Views
um no it's not - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 1092 Views
It's told after that... - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 1060 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1205 Views
Yeah... - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 1129 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 1132 Views
Ah, whatever... - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 1060 Views
We are on the exact same page - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 1107 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 1191 Views
LMAO - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1549 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 1118 Views

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