my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal.
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM
Thus, she fails the intuitively obvious-test
WHAT intuitively obvious test?
Jordan admitted years that was a joke, that he served at that Q&A the smart ass answer one of his physics teachers used to give his students when they didn't get a difficult problem. He admitted he was pulling our leg, and that he was enjoying it!!!
He even has contradicted the "intuitively obvious" joke elsewhere by saying there were some clues but no red flag. A red flag is slang for an obvious clue.... he said there were none!
The fact it's a joke aside, Graendal as a suspect is still perfectly obvious in TFOH. As the culprit (more than by a lucky guess) and in what circumstances no, but as a suspect certainly. It was even intuitively obvious to come up with the very simple theory that one of Forsaken allied with Rahvin was also in the palace, or came to the palace in the aftermath. I know for a fact it's an obvious reasoning to make because I bloody did it the first time I read that scene! So don't come and tell me Slayer is obvious and Graendal isn't! That's a totally ridiculous statement. NO ONE I've seen on any WOT website or newsgroup I've visited has brought up the theory that Slayer killed the BA in Tear or the Grey Men in the WT before WH revealed it! No one! So don't come and tell it's obvious Slayer did it because he killed before in the series.... It wasn't even obvious there was an executioner for the Shadow in the series, that Shadowspawn or a Forsaken didn't perform these deeds!
The closest someone may come to having Slayer as a suspect by intuition (not a pure guess, as your theory) is "hmmm.. maybe the person who eliminated the BA traitors in TDR also came to kill Asmodean". And that'd be a wrong reasonning because when you think this through by closer examinatiom of the text the circumstances of the death clearly indicated it wasn't an execution but a murder of opportunity, whereas in Tear it was an execution. So there's no obvious connection to make between the two events....
OTOH, it's perfectly simple to come up with possible reasons for Graendal and Sammael to have been in the palace and Asmodean stumbling on them by accident (ta'veren twist): they came to meet Rahvin and were very surprised to find the palace in an uproar and al'Thor apparently there - and remained around to find out what happened; they came for spies, they came to try to learn Rand's next move, they came to find out what happened because agents reported Rahvin's death, they came to check if Lanfear was now with Rand and had betrayed them all, they came to see if Rand was weakened enough by the duel they could take him out Etc., Etc. Some of these reasons don't stand the test of the next books and some do, but back in TFOH they were perfectly valid guesses that could come quite close to solving what happened. With LOC and ACOS, you can narrow it down some more, eliminate Demandred as another suspect, and Sammael, then Semirhage. And in those books and TPOD are the clues that the main remaining suspect, Graendal, seems to know something about Asmodean the others don't, and never something shows up that contradicted the notion she may have killed Asmodean. She had the means, she would have motives, and it's perfectly possible to reason out why she may have had the opportunity.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds
- 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM
2828 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery....
- 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM
1512 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer...
- 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM
1318 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments
- 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM
1195 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM*
- 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM
758 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM*
- 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM
715 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin
- 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM
1321 Views
Far-fetched, IMO
- 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM
1623 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer
- 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM
1331 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so!
- 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM
1424 Views
Bah, hogwash!
- 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM
1274 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash!
- 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM
1302 Views
The point is...
- 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM
1364 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler
- 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM
1405 Views
As is Slayer
- 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM
1292 Views
There is no evidence of this at all
- 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM
1229 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys
- 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM
1212 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say....
- 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM
1308 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't
- 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM
1459 Views
We often see...
- 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM
1309 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious
- 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM
1397 Views
Indeed
- 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM
1255 Views
Well...
- 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM
1321 Views
Re: Well...
- 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM
1322 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above
- 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM
1234 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex!
- 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM
1297 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense
- 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM
1259 Views
Re: Well...
- 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM
1427 Views
No...
- 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM
1309 Views
let's try this another way
- 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM
1312 Views
The main problem with Graendal is...
- 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM
1232 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is...
- 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM
1380 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal.
- 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM
1461 Views
RJ used the expression...
- 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM
1230 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself
- 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
1359 Views
- 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
1359 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer
- 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM
1303 Views
Couple of questions
- 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM
1322 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO!
- 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM
1158 Views
Hmmm
- 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM
1282 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves
- 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM
1185 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that.
- 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM
1251 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly
- 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM
1342 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM*
- 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM
653 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
- 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM
1300 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
- 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM
1280 Views
But look...
- 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM
1292 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved
- 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM
1209 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
- 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM
1262 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
- 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM
1288 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM
1323 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM
1191 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM
1261 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH
- 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM
1282 Views
???
- 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM
1229 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM*
- 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM
1268 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT
- 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM
1039 Views
Indeed
- 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM
1182 Views
Re: Indeed
- 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM
1180 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM
1211 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM
1178 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO
- 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM
1374 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM*
- 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM
775 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot?
- 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM
1071 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
- 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM
1281 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
- 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM
1501 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
- 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM
995 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
- 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM
1415 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo.....
- 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM
1186 Views
Doesn't make sense
- 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM
1228 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it.....
- 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM
1134 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM*
- 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM
726 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more
*NM*
- 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
785 Views
*NM*
- 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
785 Views
There is a quote that refutes this...
- 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM
1261 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes.
- 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM
1225 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM*
- 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM
732 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever
- 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM
1283 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM*
- 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM
829 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory
- 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM
1216 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer...
- 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM
1248 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that
- 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM
1213 Views
Well, I don't think so.
- 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM
1230 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
- 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM
1097 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him
- 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
1093 Views
- 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
1093 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM
1163 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books"
- 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM
1139 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM
1148 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM
1106 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM*
- 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM
760 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books
- 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM
1057 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he.
- 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM
1226 Views
That's what I've always thought as well.
- 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM
1159 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised".....
- 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM
1151 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity
- 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM
1175 Views
That is simply false.
- 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM
1247 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only"
- 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM
1316 Views
Of course, it is false
- 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM
1230 Views
Here are the quotes
- 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM
1162 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM
759 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to
- 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM
1087 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out.
*NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
631 Views
*NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
631 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM
815 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
- 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM
1223 Views
Well...
- 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM
1207 Views
Logic
- 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM
1175 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
- 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
1176 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
- 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
1176 Views
I'm just being a smartass
*NM*
- 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
791 Views
*NM*
- 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
791 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense.
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
1216 Views
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
1216 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is
- 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
1170 Views
- 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
1170 Views
Yeah...
- 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM
1276 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over
- 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM
1220 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful...
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
1414 Views
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
1414 Views
No they show that she is deliberate!
- 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM
1253 Views
That are just semantics
- 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM
1314 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH?
- 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM
1189 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes...
- 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM
1186 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point?
- 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM
1245 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
- 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
1288 Views
- 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
1288 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
- 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
1253 Views
- 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
1253 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it...
- 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM
1321 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled
- 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM
1336 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said.
- 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM
1079 Views
um no it's not
- 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM
1168 Views
It's told after that...
- 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM
1134 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place
- 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM
1282 Views
Yeah...
- 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM
1208 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ...
- 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM
1216 Views
Ah, whatever...
- 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
1149 Views
- 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
1149 Views
We are on the exact same page
- 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM
1181 Views
