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No they show that she is deliberate! darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM
It's pretty ridiculous to think that a top assassin of the Shadow might have killed Asmo.

On the other hand, it's of course perfectly reasonable that the careful Forsaken Graendal casually strolled through the Caemlyn Palace - naturally without any mask - to Compel some servants, who weren't even there, and just bumped into Asmo, so that she had to balefire him..

But hey, everyone follows his own logic!


that it was a murder of opportunity on the other hand is sooo logical!

and PS Graendal is not the "careful Forsaken"

tFoH
The First Sparks Fall

It was true, what she said of them. Rahvin himself preferred diplomacy and manipulation to open conflict, though he would not shy from it if needed. Sammael's way had always been armies and conquest; he would not go near Lews Therin, even reborn as a shepherd, until he was sure of victory. Graendal, too, followed conquest, though her methods did not involve soldiers; for all her concern with her toys, she took one solid step at a time. Openly to be sure, as the Chosen reckoned such things, but never stretching too far at any step.

or how about this one

tPoD
New Alliances

Graendal considered carefully, if quickly. She was afraid, an emotion she was far more used to inspiring in others, but she knew how to control her fear. While she had never commanded armies as some of the others had, she was neither a stranger to hazard nor a coward, yet this was more than a mere threat ... Shockingly, the Myrddraal laughed. It sounded like ice crumbling. Myrddraal never laughed. "You are braver than most. And wiser. Shaidar Haran will do for you. So long as you remember who I am. So long as you do not let bravery overcome your fear too far."

It's clear the woman does what she has too when she feels threatened.


couple that with her already looting Sammael's grave and her willingness to go snatch the Sharans for tiny misdirection and you get a picture of a woman who goes to great lengths (including hazardous ones) to accomplish her goals. Unlike Moghedien who sits around and waits for the perfect opportunity, Graendal strikes as soon as any opening is available. Look what she did to Moghedien and Cyndane. She didn't flee, she went on the offensive.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds Etzel - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2828 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... GateKeeper - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1512 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 814 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... FanEditor10 - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1318 Views
It's not really obvious... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 1253 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 1196 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM 758 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM* newyorkersedai - 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM 715 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM 1321 Views
Far-fetched, IMO DomA - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1623 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 846 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1331 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1424 Views
Bah, hogwash! Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1274 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! DomA - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1302 Views
The point is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1364 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1405 Views
As is Slayer Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 1293 Views
There is no evidence of this at all darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 1229 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 1213 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 1252 Views
I disagree. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1358 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... DomA - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1309 Views
I think this is your interpretation Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 1246 Views
Yeah right... fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1362 Views
See my replies above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 1150 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 1138 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 1119 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1459 Views
We often see... Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1309 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1397 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1397 Views
Agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 760 Views
Indeed Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 1256 Views
Well... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1321 Views
Re: Well... darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1323 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 1235 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1299 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 1259 Views
common sense? darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 1256 Views
See my posts above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1272 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1429 Views
No... Etzel - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1309 Views
let's try this another way darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1313 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 1232 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1334 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... DomA - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1381 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1462 Views
RJ used the expression... Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 1230 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1359 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 1219 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer DomA - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 1303 Views
Couple of questions scalius - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1322 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 1158 Views
Hmmm scalius - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1282 Views
Re: Hmmm RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 1145 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 1185 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 1251 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1343 Views
We've seen it done. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 1185 Views
Not the same thing darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 1195 Views
Re: Couple of questions DomA - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1344 Views
As said... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1274 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* Tom - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 653 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Etzel - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1300 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 1280 Views
But look... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1292 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 1210 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 1262 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1290 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1323 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 1191 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 1262 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM 1282 Views
??? Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 1229 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 1270 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 1041 Views
Indeed Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 1183 Views
Re: Indeed darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 1180 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM 1212 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM 1180 Views
LOL!! Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 998 Views
Too much? Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 1258 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO saidarisnowtainted - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1374 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 775 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? saidarisnowtainted - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 1071 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken darius_sedai - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1281 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken saidarisnowtainted - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1502 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book darius_sedai - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 996 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book saidarisnowtainted - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1416 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 1207 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds DomA - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 1211 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... trzaska2000 - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 1186 Views
Doesn't make sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 1229 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 1134 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM 726 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* Knightscape - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 785 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1262 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes. trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM 1225 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM 732 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM 1284 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM* newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM 829 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 1216 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 1249 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 1215 Views
Well, I don't think so. Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 1232 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1292 Views
Again... Etzel - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1308 Views
Taking things NO darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1266 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 1097 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 1095 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 1163 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 1139 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 1148 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 1106 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 760 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 1058 Views
I'm relieved then... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 1063 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 1197 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1383 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 1227 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. Seriana Sedai - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 1160 Views
That's always been my theory too Sidious - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 1260 Views
*nods* darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1266 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too Seriana Sedai - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 1178 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... trzaska2000 - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 1151 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. TaskmasterJack - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 1191 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity darius_sedai - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 1176 Views
That is simply false. Etzel - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 1248 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1317 Views
Of course, it is false Etzel - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 1232 Views
Here are the quotes darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 1163 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 759 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 1088 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 631 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 815 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 1224 Views
Well... Etzel - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 1208 Views
Logic darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 1176 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... DomA - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 1176 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 791 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns Sidious - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1282 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 1162 Views
That reminds me... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 1181 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 1216 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 1170 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 1276 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 1220 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 1414 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 1254 Views
That are just semantics Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1315 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 1190 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 1186 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 1245 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1288 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 1253 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 1321 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1336 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 1079 Views
um no it's not darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 1168 Views
It's told after that... Etzel - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 1134 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1282 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 1208 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 1216 Views
Ah, whatever... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 1149 Views
We are on the exact same page darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 1181 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page Sidious - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 1283 Views
LMAO darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1631 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 1190 Views
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