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Yeah, both were RJ Sidious Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM
Dammit Sidious... this is getting irritating as hell. Silviana clearly states that in the night when Egwene will surely gain her full strength, Barasine alone is enough to shield her, but she wants one more person to prevent trickery from Egwene.

Thus, Barasine alone can shield Egwene, meaning Egwene cannot be more than twice as strong as her.


We know for a FACT that Amys cannot hold Egwene for more than a few moments in FoH. If Barasine is weaker than Amys, how on earth can Barasine hold Egwene if Egwene is NOT under the influence of forkroot?

Either RJ was wrong, or BS is wrong. So, who do YOU think is wrong?


Barasine could shield Egwene in KoD, so it was RJ all the way.

Now, Amys said she was exhausted by the effort, but she still did hold the shield. So it isn't true at all that Amys cannot shield Egwene.

By my list, both are stronger than half Egwene's strength, and thus both can indeed shield her. Which is verified by the text.


Amys is at that point where she can hold Egwene with great effort, but if Egwene tried, she might be able to break the shield. Egwene did try and couldn't break it, but Amys said she needed to release saidar because Egwene was too strong.

Either way, this debate has gone off on a tangent. Neither Melaine or Amys are weak women, and Egwene is stronger than both combined. Egwene isn't even top strength - all the Forsaken and some good guys exceed her in power. Logically, the average woman cannot cluster around 50% of maximum strength. If so, then Moiraine was really retarded to think that it would take Aviendha and Egwene to 'perhaps' match one of the Forsaken.

Also it takes at least five women to hold a high powered male. Siuan said that Logain would have escaped if it had been less than six women, which is acceptable proof to me that women peak at 10-20. If they're around 50, then Logain is one hell of a guy.
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Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM 2430 Views
Some good RAFOs here Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:31:56 PM 1154 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:36:55 PM 1074 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking! Logain - 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM 1356 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM 1191 Views
See the question again man! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM 1163 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM 1246 Views
How? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:41 PM 1178 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM 1179 Views
Think logically for a moment... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM 1018 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM 1304 Views
Aviendha did in FoH... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM 1006 Views
Nope! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM 1187 Views
Your quotes are faulty Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM 1170 Views
In what sense though? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM 1172 Views
Forkroot Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM 1138 Views
Again... later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM 996 Views
What do you mean? Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM 1158 Views
See below... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM 1050 Views
Re: See below... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM 1111 Views
I just did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM 957 Views
Well then we disagree Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM 1160 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM 975 Views
Ah, you mean later later ... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM 1088 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM 1184 Views
Yes I know Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM 1194 Views
I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM 1147 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM 1147 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM 1089 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM 1149 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM 1189 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:29:04 PM 1282 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:47:00 PM 1070 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe? Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM 997 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM 1103 Views
In that case, there is no problem... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM 1227 Views
But that isn't what the text says... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM 951 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then? Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM 1209 Views
She also says Egwene is Aes Sedai in the same sentence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:25:16 PM 1214 Views
Yeah, both were RJ Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1062 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM 1154 Views
Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM 1154 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM 1011 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM 1147 Views
Re: Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:43:41 PM 1025 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:50:23 PM 1166 Views
I haven't refuted? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:53:17 PM 1205 Views
Here's what is clear: Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM 1060 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM 1038 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM 957 Views
At least we agree on one thing Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM 1068 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:32:06 PM 1037 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:43:59 PM 1153 Views
fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:57:25 PM 991 Views
Re: Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:12:29 PM 1080 Views
Re: fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:34:28 PM 1108 Views
Thought on this darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:09:29 PM 1004 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3 darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM 886 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM 994 Views
That was kind of my point... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:19:23 PM 724 Views
of course Katerine would have complained darius_sedai - 12/06/2010 12:53:31 PM 1122 Views
The rate forkroot wears off? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM 1113 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all! fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM 1003 Views
Typos, screwed up what I meant Rurouni_Kenshin - 17/06/2010 02:31:50 AM 1019 Views
You are... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 04:32:47 AM 1233 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM 911 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM 1022 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM 1017 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM 1007 Views
Easy... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM 973 Views
What has that got to do with it? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM 1160 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half.. Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM 1081 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM 1197 Views
I can agree with that. Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM 959 Views
How can you agree with it? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:13:55 PM 1160 Views
I'm thinking Berowin here... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:16:41 PM 1171 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:18:19 PM 1033 Views
... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM 966 Views
Agreed, but... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM 1121 Views
Re: Agreed, but... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM 915 Views
Good point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM 1130 Views
Or, you know, you're wrong? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:55 PM 1011 Views
Re: Good point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:28:02 PM 1194 Views
We've had this discussion before darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:59:34 PM 1124 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM 984 Views
The Bell Curve fits perfectly if one simple fact is true... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:31:31 PM 950 Views
Or, you know, you can stop misinterpreting Aviendha... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:40:05 PM 1081 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM 933 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM 939 Views
Re: Uhhh? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM 943 Views
DUDE! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM 959 Views
Re: DUDE! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:09:11 PM 934 Views
I explained... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:27:44 PM 948 Views
Re: I explained... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:45:58 PM 1109 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM 1608 Views
That's fairly simple, actually... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM 1180 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM 1157 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM* fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM 548 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM 1238 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM 1074 Views
You're missing an important point... fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:10:55 PM 1047 Views
Yes, what do you mean? You are actually proving our point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:10:50 PM 909 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM 985 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM 991 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:06:53 PM 973 Views
Simply this... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:13:42 PM 995 Views
Very poor evidence Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM 1127 Views
No it isn't... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:18:09 PM 1073 Views
Re: No it isn't... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:32:17 PM 1142 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM 1061 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined... Shannow - 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM 1107 Views
Here's the problem with that... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM 970 Views
Linked circles are more effective than individual channelers... Shannow - 11/06/2010 01:57:43 PM 1076 Views
That much stronger? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:06:18 PM 1141 Views
On this we agree. darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:34:45 PM 945 Views
I think you are misreading her. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM 951 Views
Bingo *NM* Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:51:29 PM 646 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM* Logain - 10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM 590 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM 1159 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM 1013 Views
I don't agree Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM 1002 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM 1194 Views
Hmm... Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM 930 Views
Because of the question to which she responded... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM 938 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM 1089 Views
Without contradicting the latter... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM 988 Views
Ah well Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM 968 Views
Which is even more evidence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:23:28 PM 1075 Views
Dude Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:30:57 PM 1158 Views
It isn't omission fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 10:54:47 PM 1112 Views
omg not this again *NM* BlackAdder - 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM 1092 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM 1191 Views
Nope... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM 1053 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM 1087 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55? Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM 954 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM 896 Views
Amys can't hold her properly Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM 929 Views
What about later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM 955 Views
No she didn't darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM 1067 Views
No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM 1111 Views
Re: No she didn't what? darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM 961 Views
Re: No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 06:02:57 PM 1080 Views
you are arguing in a circle darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:31:19 PM 1438 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM 1057 Views
That's simple... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM 1041 Views
Re: That's simple... Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM 990 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it. fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM 1169 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body. Gher - 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM 1020 Views
But they didn't look alike anyway. *NM* Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:59:35 PM 638 Views
Eh, yeah. Gher - 12/06/2010 08:24:10 PM 962 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new beetnemesis - 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM 1129 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM 1207 Views
They RAFO way too much. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:56 AM 929 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM 958 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM 1234 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second... Logain - 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM 975 Views
That still proves my point... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM 1145 Views
Re: That still proves my point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM 1012 Views
Then why... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM 1101 Views
Re: Then why... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM 981 Views
God, what stupidity! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM 954 Views
Re: God, what stupidity! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM 1057 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM 997 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100. Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM 1290 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM 1133 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM 1062 Views
You're pretty much agreeing with me, you know? fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:32:44 PM 1041 Views
Yes. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/06/2010 10:31:00 PM 1144 Views
Re: Just to make things clear on the strength thing... Bored - 14/06/2010 11:21:31 PM 1348 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:48:43 PM 943 Views
Also interesting... Etzel - 10/06/2010 09:38:27 PM 1090 Views
I'm even more confused (parallel worlds and the Pattern) entyti - 10/06/2010 09:48:17 PM 1069 Views
Nah,... DomA - 11/06/2010 11:38:20 AM 1040 Views
Fascinating! entyti - 13/06/2010 02:30:42 AM 1144 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM 1040 Views
I think she's saving that info for her WoT Encyclopedia. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:54:38 AM 1102 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. TaskmasterJack - 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM 1141 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. DomA - 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM 1107 Views
I agree Etzel - 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM 1202 Views
Re: I agree TaskmasterJack - 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM 982 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out" Etzel - 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM 1016 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM 566 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM* Etzel - 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM 663 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question. TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM 1012 Views
Yeah, sorry for the rolly-eyed smiley! Was a bit mean... Etzel - 13/06/2010 09:19:13 AM 1039 Views
I agree with Jack and Sidious and not with you. Tom - 11/06/2010 03:20:30 PM 1125 Views
Well, on the Thom question... Etzel - 11/06/2010 08:25:09 AM 992 Views
Yeah Sidious - 11/06/2010 08:26:33 AM 1093 Views
Re: Yeah darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 12:25:21 AM 951 Views
Eh, practically useless. callandor1000 - 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM 963 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM 533 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though. callandor1000 - 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM 1543 Views
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