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Sidious Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM
Dammit Sidious... this is getting irritating as hell. Silviana clearly states that in the night when Egwene will surely gain her full strength, Barasine alone is enough to shield her, but she wants one more person to prevent trickery from Egwene.

Thus, Barasine alone can shield Egwene, meaning Egwene cannot be more than twice as strong as her.


We know for a FACT that Amys cannot hold Egwene for more than a few moments in FoH. If Barasine is weaker than Amys, how on earth can Barasine hold Egwene if Egwene is NOT under the influence of forkroot?

Either RJ was wrong, or BS is wrong. So, who do YOU think is wrong?


Barasine could shield Egwene in KoD, so it was RJ all the way.

Now, Amys said she was exhausted by the effort, but she still did hold the shield. So it isn't true at all that Amys cannot shield Egwene.

By my list, both are stronger than half Egwene's strength, and thus both can indeed shield her. Which is verified by the text.


Amys is at that point where she can hold Egwene with great effort, but if Egwene tried, she might be able to break the shield. Egwene did try and couldn't break it, but Amys said she needed to release saidar because Egwene was too strong.

Either way, this debate has gone off on a tangent. Neither Melaine or Amys are weak women, and Egwene is stronger than both combined. Egwene isn't even top strength - all the Forsaken and some good guys exceed her in power. Logically, the average woman cannot cluster around 50% of maximum strength. If so, then Moiraine was really retarded to think that it would take Aviendha and Egwene to 'perhaps' match one of the Forsaken.

Also it takes at least five women to hold a high powered male. Siuan said that Logain would have escaped if it had been less than six women, which is acceptable proof to me that women peak at 10-20. If they're around 50, then Logain is one hell of a guy.


You have the most irritating habit of taking your ball and going home when you don't like what's being said.
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Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM 2449 Views
Some good RAFOs here Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:31:56 PM 1175 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:36:55 PM 1095 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking! Logain - 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM 1381 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM 1210 Views
See the question again man! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM 1185 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM 1270 Views
How? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:41 PM 1202 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM 1203 Views
Think logically for a moment... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM 1038 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM 1335 Views
Aviendha did in FoH... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM 1035 Views
Nope! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM 1212 Views
Your quotes are faulty Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM 1198 Views
In what sense though? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM 1197 Views
Forkroot Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM 1175 Views
Again... later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM 1022 Views
What do you mean? Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM 1181 Views
See below... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM 1070 Views
Re: See below... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM 1135 Views
I just did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM 987 Views
Well then we disagree Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM 1181 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM 1005 Views
Ah, you mean later later ... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM 1114 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM 1204 Views
Yes I know Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM 1215 Views
I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM 1170 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM 1165 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM 1114 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM 1173 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM 1206 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:29:04 PM 1304 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:47:00 PM 1086 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe? Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM 1016 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM 1122 Views
In that case, there is no problem... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM 1247 Views
But that isn't what the text says... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM 969 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then? Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM 1251 Views
She also says Egwene is Aes Sedai in the same sentence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:25:16 PM 1237 Views
Yeah, both were RJ Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1082 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM 1173 Views
Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM 1177 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM 1028 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM 1169 Views
Re: Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:43:41 PM 1047 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:50:23 PM 1189 Views
I haven't refuted? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:53:17 PM 1222 Views
Here's what is clear: Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM 1079 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM 1055 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM 975 Views
At least we agree on one thing Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM 1086 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:32:06 PM 1059 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:43:59 PM 1177 Views
fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:57:25 PM 1012 Views
Re: Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:12:29 PM 1098 Views
Re: fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:34:28 PM 1133 Views
Thought on this darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:09:29 PM 1021 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3 darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM 904 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM 1023 Views
That was kind of my point... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:19:23 PM 746 Views
of course Katerine would have complained darius_sedai - 12/06/2010 12:53:31 PM 1139 Views
The rate forkroot wears off? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM 1132 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all! fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM 1025 Views
Typos, screwed up what I meant Rurouni_Kenshin - 17/06/2010 02:31:50 AM 1035 Views
You are... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 04:32:47 AM 1252 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM 935 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM 1045 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM 1035 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM 1028 Views
Easy... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM 995 Views
What has that got to do with it? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM 1183 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half.. Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM 1102 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM 1220 Views
I can agree with that. Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM 985 Views
How can you agree with it? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:13:55 PM 1182 Views
I'm thinking Berowin here... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:16:41 PM 1196 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:18:19 PM 1054 Views
... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM 986 Views
Agreed, but... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM 1142 Views
Re: Agreed, but... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM 942 Views
Good point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM 1154 Views
Or, you know, you're wrong? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:55 PM 1031 Views
Re: Good point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:28:02 PM 1217 Views
We've had this discussion before darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:59:34 PM 1153 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM 1008 Views
The Bell Curve fits perfectly if one simple fact is true... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:31:31 PM 977 Views
Or, you know, you can stop misinterpreting Aviendha... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:40:05 PM 1100 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM 954 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM 963 Views
Re: Uhhh? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM 960 Views
DUDE! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM 979 Views
Re: DUDE! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:09:11 PM 953 Views
I explained... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:27:44 PM 973 Views
Re: I explained... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:45:58 PM 1134 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM 1626 Views
That's fairly simple, actually... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM 1203 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM 1184 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM* fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM 557 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM 1264 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM 1098 Views
You're missing an important point... fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:10:55 PM 1069 Views
Yes, what do you mean? You are actually proving our point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:10:50 PM 935 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM 1008 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM 1019 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:06:53 PM 994 Views
Simply this... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:13:42 PM 1023 Views
Very poor evidence Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM 1149 Views
No it isn't... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:18:09 PM 1097 Views
Re: No it isn't... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:32:17 PM 1163 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM 1083 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined... Shannow - 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM 1129 Views
Here's the problem with that... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM 995 Views
Linked circles are more effective than individual channelers... Shannow - 11/06/2010 01:57:43 PM 1100 Views
That much stronger? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:06:18 PM 1158 Views
On this we agree. darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:34:45 PM 965 Views
I think you are misreading her. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM 976 Views
Bingo *NM* Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:51:29 PM 656 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM* Logain - 10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM 600 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM 1179 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM 1039 Views
I don't agree Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM 1027 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM 1214 Views
Hmm... Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM 951 Views
Because of the question to which she responded... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM 960 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM 1111 Views
Without contradicting the latter... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM 1013 Views
Ah well Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM 989 Views
Which is even more evidence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:23:28 PM 1105 Views
Dude Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:30:57 PM 1180 Views
It isn't omission fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 10:54:47 PM 1133 Views
omg not this again *NM* BlackAdder - 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM 1112 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM 1211 Views
Nope... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM 1082 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM 1106 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55? Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM 973 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM 919 Views
Amys can't hold her properly Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM 952 Views
What about later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM 968 Views
No she didn't darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM 1091 Views
No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM 1131 Views
Re: No she didn't what? darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM 978 Views
Re: No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 06:02:57 PM 1102 Views
you are arguing in a circle darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:31:19 PM 1457 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM 1075 Views
That's simple... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM 1065 Views
Re: That's simple... Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM 1013 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it. fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM 1194 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body. Gher - 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM 1046 Views
But they didn't look alike anyway. *NM* Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:59:35 PM 647 Views
Eh, yeah. Gher - 12/06/2010 08:24:10 PM 989 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new beetnemesis - 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM 1146 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM 1232 Views
They RAFO way too much. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:56 AM 965 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM 984 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM 1253 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second... Logain - 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM 999 Views
That still proves my point... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM 1166 Views
Re: That still proves my point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM 1030 Views
Then why... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM 1122 Views
Re: Then why... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM 1002 Views
God, what stupidity! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM 970 Views
Re: God, what stupidity! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM 1078 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM 1019 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100. Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM 1311 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM 1157 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM 1092 Views
You're pretty much agreeing with me, you know? fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:32:44 PM 1069 Views
Yes. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/06/2010 10:31:00 PM 1159 Views
Re: Just to make things clear on the strength thing... Bored - 14/06/2010 11:21:31 PM 1361 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:48:43 PM 956 Views
Also interesting... Etzel - 10/06/2010 09:38:27 PM 1105 Views
I'm even more confused (parallel worlds and the Pattern) entyti - 10/06/2010 09:48:17 PM 1090 Views
Nah,... DomA - 11/06/2010 11:38:20 AM 1059 Views
Fascinating! entyti - 13/06/2010 02:30:42 AM 1168 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM 1061 Views
I think she's saving that info for her WoT Encyclopedia. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:54:38 AM 1128 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. TaskmasterJack - 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM 1160 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. DomA - 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM 1134 Views
I agree Etzel - 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM 1224 Views
Re: I agree TaskmasterJack - 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM 1002 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out" Etzel - 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM 1053 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM 573 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM* Etzel - 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM 672 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question. TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM 1036 Views
Yeah, sorry for the rolly-eyed smiley! Was a bit mean... Etzel - 13/06/2010 09:19:13 AM 1059 Views
I agree with Jack and Sidious and not with you. Tom - 11/06/2010 03:20:30 PM 1144 Views
Well, on the Thom question... Etzel - 11/06/2010 08:25:09 AM 1008 Views
Yeah Sidious - 11/06/2010 08:26:33 AM 1115 Views
Re: Yeah darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 12:25:21 AM 975 Views
Eh, practically useless. callandor1000 - 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM 987 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM 540 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though. callandor1000 - 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM 1561 Views
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