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I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense Sidious Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM

Or maybe you're trying to put a triangular block into a square hole.

It's a screwed-up half-ass magic system that has huge flaws in it. Amys can't do it properly, but we're expected to eat the theory that Barasine or Katerine can at a much later stage in the books when Egwene is getting really skilled and powerful. Sometimes I can't believe we give this stuff the time of day. It's clearly got huge errors in it.


All I know, Sidious, is that by my explanation, there are few holes in the OP strength issue, it matches what the author stated outside the books and seems sensible to me.

Your list is years old, never took RJ's bell curve statement into account, and shows some inconsistencies based on the text itself.


I've adjusted my list every time he's said something.

Your theory has enormous holes in it, but you didn't address them in the other post, or any of these posts. You got angry and stormed off.

If a woman sits at 50, then why does it take six to hold a man like Rand, and how can he break through 4. Are we to believe that a 100 man can break through a 200 shield? This system is utter crap if that's true, because no text supports it.
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Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM 2432 Views
Some good RAFOs here Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:31:56 PM 1156 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:36:55 PM 1074 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking! Logain - 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM 1356 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM 1192 Views
See the question again man! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM 1163 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM 1248 Views
How? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:41 PM 1179 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM 1181 Views
Think logically for a moment... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM 1018 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM 1306 Views
Aviendha did in FoH... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM 1008 Views
Nope! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM 1189 Views
Your quotes are faulty Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM 1172 Views
In what sense though? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM 1172 Views
Forkroot Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM 1139 Views
Again... later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM 996 Views
What do you mean? Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM 1159 Views
See below... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM 1051 Views
Re: See below... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM 1112 Views
I just did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM 958 Views
Well then we disagree Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM 1161 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM 976 Views
Ah, you mean later later ... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM 1089 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM 1184 Views
Yes I know Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM 1196 Views
I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM 1149 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM 1148 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM 1090 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM 1149 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM 1189 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:29:04 PM 1284 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:47:00 PM 1071 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe? Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM 999 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM 1103 Views
In that case, there is no problem... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM 1227 Views
But that isn't what the text says... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM 953 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then? Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM 1209 Views
She also says Egwene is Aes Sedai in the same sentence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:25:16 PM 1216 Views
Yeah, both were RJ Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1063 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM 1156 Views
Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM 1156 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM 1013 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM 1149 Views
Re: Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:43:41 PM 1025 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:50:23 PM 1167 Views
I haven't refuted? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:53:17 PM 1206 Views
Here's what is clear: Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM 1060 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM 1038 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM 957 Views
At least we agree on one thing Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM 1070 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:32:06 PM 1038 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:43:59 PM 1153 Views
fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:57:25 PM 992 Views
Re: Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:12:29 PM 1082 Views
Re: fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:34:28 PM 1109 Views
Thought on this darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:09:29 PM 1004 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3 darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM 887 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM 996 Views
That was kind of my point... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:19:23 PM 725 Views
of course Katerine would have complained darius_sedai - 12/06/2010 12:53:31 PM 1122 Views
The rate forkroot wears off? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM 1114 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all! fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM 1005 Views
Typos, screwed up what I meant Rurouni_Kenshin - 17/06/2010 02:31:50 AM 1021 Views
You are... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 04:32:47 AM 1235 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM 913 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM 1022 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM 1017 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM 1008 Views
Easy... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM 974 Views
What has that got to do with it? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM 1161 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half.. Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM 1081 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM 1199 Views
I can agree with that. Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM 961 Views
How can you agree with it? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:13:55 PM 1162 Views
I'm thinking Berowin here... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:16:41 PM 1173 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:18:19 PM 1034 Views
... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM 966 Views
Agreed, but... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM 1123 Views
Re: Agreed, but... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM 917 Views
Good point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM 1131 Views
Or, you know, you're wrong? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:55 PM 1013 Views
Re: Good point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:28:02 PM 1196 Views
We've had this discussion before darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:59:34 PM 1124 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM 985 Views
The Bell Curve fits perfectly if one simple fact is true... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:31:31 PM 951 Views
Or, you know, you can stop misinterpreting Aviendha... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:40:05 PM 1081 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM 935 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM 940 Views
Re: Uhhh? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM 945 Views
DUDE! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM 960 Views
Re: DUDE! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:09:11 PM 936 Views
I explained... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:27:44 PM 950 Views
Re: I explained... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:45:58 PM 1111 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM 1609 Views
That's fairly simple, actually... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM 1182 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM 1159 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM* fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM 548 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM 1238 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM 1074 Views
You're missing an important point... fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:10:55 PM 1047 Views
Yes, what do you mean? You are actually proving our point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:10:50 PM 911 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM 985 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM 991 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:06:53 PM 973 Views
Simply this... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:13:42 PM 996 Views
Very poor evidence Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM 1129 Views
No it isn't... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:18:09 PM 1075 Views
Re: No it isn't... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:32:17 PM 1142 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM 1062 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined... Shannow - 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM 1108 Views
Here's the problem with that... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM 971 Views
Linked circles are more effective than individual channelers... Shannow - 11/06/2010 01:57:43 PM 1078 Views
That much stronger? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:06:18 PM 1143 Views
On this we agree. darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:34:45 PM 945 Views
I think you are misreading her. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM 953 Views
Bingo *NM* Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:51:29 PM 646 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM* Logain - 10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM 590 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM 1159 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM 1014 Views
I don't agree Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM 1003 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM 1196 Views
Hmm... Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM 931 Views
Because of the question to which she responded... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM 940 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM 1091 Views
Without contradicting the latter... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM 990 Views
Ah well Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM 969 Views
Which is even more evidence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:23:28 PM 1076 Views
Dude Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:30:57 PM 1160 Views
It isn't omission fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 10:54:47 PM 1112 Views
omg not this again *NM* BlackAdder - 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM 1094 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM 1193 Views
Nope... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM 1055 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM 1087 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55? Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM 955 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM 897 Views
Amys can't hold her properly Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM 930 Views
What about later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM 955 Views
No she didn't darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM 1068 Views
No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM 1113 Views
Re: No she didn't what? darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM 963 Views
Re: No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 06:02:57 PM 1082 Views
you are arguing in a circle darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:31:19 PM 1440 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM 1057 Views
That's simple... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM 1042 Views
Re: That's simple... Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM 990 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it. fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM 1171 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body. Gher - 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM 1021 Views
But they didn't look alike anyway. *NM* Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:59:35 PM 638 Views
Eh, yeah. Gher - 12/06/2010 08:24:10 PM 963 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new beetnemesis - 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM 1131 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM 1209 Views
They RAFO way too much. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:56 AM 931 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM 959 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM 1236 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second... Logain - 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM 976 Views
That still proves my point... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM 1145 Views
Re: That still proves my point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM 1013 Views
Then why... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM 1101 Views
Re: Then why... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM 982 Views
God, what stupidity! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM 954 Views
Re: God, what stupidity! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM 1059 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM 998 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100. Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM 1292 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM 1134 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM 1062 Views
You're pretty much agreeing with me, you know? fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:32:44 PM 1043 Views
Yes. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/06/2010 10:31:00 PM 1144 Views
Re: Just to make things clear on the strength thing... Bored - 14/06/2010 11:21:31 PM 1348 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:48:43 PM 943 Views
Also interesting... Etzel - 10/06/2010 09:38:27 PM 1091 Views
I'm even more confused (parallel worlds and the Pattern) entyti - 10/06/2010 09:48:17 PM 1070 Views
Nah,... DomA - 11/06/2010 11:38:20 AM 1041 Views
Fascinating! entyti - 13/06/2010 02:30:42 AM 1145 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM 1040 Views
I think she's saving that info for her WoT Encyclopedia. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:54:38 AM 1103 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. TaskmasterJack - 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM 1141 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. DomA - 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM 1108 Views
I agree Etzel - 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM 1202 Views
Re: I agree TaskmasterJack - 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM 982 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out" Etzel - 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM 1018 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM 566 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM* Etzel - 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM 663 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question. TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM 1014 Views
Yeah, sorry for the rolly-eyed smiley! Was a bit mean... Etzel - 13/06/2010 09:19:13 AM 1040 Views
I agree with Jack and Sidious and not with you. Tom - 11/06/2010 03:20:30 PM 1126 Views
Well, on the Thom question... Etzel - 11/06/2010 08:25:09 AM 992 Views
Yeah Sidious - 11/06/2010 08:26:33 AM 1094 Views
Re: Yeah darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 12:25:21 AM 952 Views
Eh, practically useless. callandor1000 - 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM 965 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM 533 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though. callandor1000 - 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM 1544 Views
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