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Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM
Because you're being particularly obtuse. For instance...



In other words, you think that the strength of the original shield is important. Well, I don't think so, and I've never believed that.

So, why is it that you need a full circle of 13 to shield Rand, but only six to hold him? Believe what you will, but the text has made it abundantly clear that fewer people (and thus less strength) is needed to maintain a shield once more people (and thus more strength) have actually made it.

I think that the power that's put into maintaining the shield is what's of prime importance. Do you think that 13 shielded Semirhage initially, because I'm pretty sure those two AS would have merely taken over Cadsuane's initial shield.

I don't think 13 shielded her. But I'm dead certain two did not, and cannot shield her, if we stick to your list.

I'm not sure of your contention here.

Falion (15) + Ispan (15) = 30.
Held Nynaeve, but lost in dueling.

They lost because another channeler got involved (one or two of the Kin). Before they did get involved, Nynaeve was unable to do anything, because they had her shielded!

Amys (25) + Melaine (20) < Egwene (50)

Anyway that's what I thought last time I thought about those scenes.

But if Ispan and Falion can shield Nynaeve (who needs the help of others to escape), then Melaine and Amys should be able to easily shield Egwene, who is weaker than Nynaeve. Which doesn't add up at all.

I mean she commented on his power before he used it in the treehouse. I don't know what she's based her observations on long-term, but there's no proof that it's influenced by his angreal. More likely she's still thinking about when he defeated she and Elayne.

Of course she's influenced by the angreal. Why shouldn't she be?

Lol, but there have been what... 20 male channelers in the last decade and how many hundreds of Reds? Master shielders... I'd be surprised. Not a bad theory, but not proven in the slightest.

So what if there were only 20? More of the Aes Sedai were involved. It wasn't a one on one.

Thing is, the Aes Sedai probably do study shielding because they need to be good at it to defeat male channelers. You don't need one in front of you to practice.

But the WO have never had to shield men, or women even. So it isn't a stretch to say they are worse at it than AS.
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Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM 2333 Views
Some good RAFOs here Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:31:56 PM 1086 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:36:55 PM 970 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking! Logain - 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM 1270 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM 1117 Views
See the question again man! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM 1089 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM 1185 Views
How? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:41 PM 1118 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM 1120 Views
Think logically for a moment... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM 944 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM 1241 Views
Aviendha did in FoH... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM 927 Views
Nope! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM 1102 Views
Your quotes are faulty Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM 1111 Views
In what sense though? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM 1097 Views
Forkroot Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM 1055 Views
Again... later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM 912 Views
What do you mean? Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM 1094 Views
See below... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM 972 Views
Re: See below... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM 1041 Views
I just did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM 878 Views
Well then we disagree Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM 1088 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM 914 Views
Ah, you mean later later ... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM 1016 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM 1109 Views
Yes I know Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM 1113 Views
I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM 1089 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM 1083 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM 1019 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM 1059 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM 1109 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:29:04 PM 1212 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:47:00 PM 1007 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe? Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM 928 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM 1013 Views
In that case, there is no problem... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM 1134 Views
But that isn't what the text says... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM 883 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then? Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM 1125 Views
She also says Egwene is Aes Sedai in the same sentence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:25:16 PM 1148 Views
Yeah, both were RJ Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 994 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM 1089 Views
Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM 1083 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM 947 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM 1049 Views
Re: Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:43:41 PM 930 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:50:23 PM 1093 Views
I haven't refuted? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:53:17 PM 1131 Views
Here's what is clear: Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM 989 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM 974 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM 883 Views
At least we agree on one thing Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM 995 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:32:06 PM 951 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:43:59 PM 1072 Views
fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:57:25 PM 931 Views
Re: Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:12:29 PM 1016 Views
Re: fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:34:28 PM 1031 Views
Thought on this darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:09:29 PM 939 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3 darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM 819 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM 920 Views
That was kind of my point... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:19:23 PM 653 Views
of course Katerine would have complained darius_sedai - 12/06/2010 12:53:31 PM 1044 Views
The rate forkroot wears off? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM 1036 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all! fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM 943 Views
Typos, screwed up what I meant Rurouni_Kenshin - 17/06/2010 02:31:50 AM 947 Views
You are... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 04:32:47 AM 1171 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM 827 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM 944 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM 929 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM 938 Views
Easy... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM 904 Views
What has that got to do with it? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM 1091 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half.. Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM 1004 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM 1131 Views
I can agree with that. Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM 892 Views
How can you agree with it? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:13:55 PM 1096 Views
I'm thinking Berowin here... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:16:41 PM 1095 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:18:19 PM 953 Views
... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM 885 Views
Agreed, but... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM 1045 Views
Re: Agreed, but... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM 848 Views
Good point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM 1059 Views
Or, you know, you're wrong? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:55 PM 927 Views
Re: Good point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:28:02 PM 1127 Views
We've had this discussion before darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:59:34 PM 1035 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM 922 Views
The Bell Curve fits perfectly if one simple fact is true... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:31:31 PM 872 Views
Or, you know, you can stop misinterpreting Aviendha... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:40:05 PM 1001 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM 867 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM 867 Views
Re: Uhhh? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM 867 Views
DUDE! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM 898 Views
Re: DUDE! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:09:11 PM 866 Views
I explained... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:27:44 PM 879 Views
Re: I explained... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:45:58 PM 1036 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM 1534 Views
That's fairly simple, actually... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM 1118 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM 1070 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM* fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM 516 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM 1137 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM 991 Views
You're missing an important point... fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:10:55 PM 980 Views
Yes, what do you mean? You are actually proving our point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:10:50 PM 852 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM 911 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM 929 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:06:53 PM 900 Views
Simply this... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:13:42 PM 919 Views
Very poor evidence Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM 1048 Views
No it isn't... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:18:09 PM 995 Views
Re: No it isn't... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:32:17 PM 1071 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM 995 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined... Shannow - 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM 1040 Views
Here's the problem with that... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM 901 Views
Linked circles are more effective than individual channelers... Shannow - 11/06/2010 01:57:43 PM 1000 Views
That much stronger? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:06:18 PM 1061 Views
On this we agree. darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:34:45 PM 878 Views
I think you are misreading her. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM 866 Views
Bingo *NM* Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:51:29 PM 605 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM* Logain - 10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM 553 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM 1096 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM 931 Views
I don't agree Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM 913 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM 1116 Views
Hmm... Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM 855 Views
Because of the question to which she responded... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM 861 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM 1019 Views
Without contradicting the latter... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM 900 Views
Ah well Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM 893 Views
Which is even more evidence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:23:28 PM 980 Views
Dude Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:30:57 PM 1086 Views
It isn't omission fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 10:54:47 PM 1050 Views
omg not this again *NM* BlackAdder - 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM 1012 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM 1124 Views
Nope... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM 982 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM 1016 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55? Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM 879 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM 823 Views
Amys can't hold her properly Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM 856 Views
What about later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM 861 Views
No she didn't darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM 980 Views
No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM 1029 Views
Re: No she didn't what? darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM 869 Views
Re: No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 06:02:57 PM 1020 Views
you are arguing in a circle darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:31:19 PM 1342 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM 990 Views
That's simple... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM 940 Views
Re: That's simple... Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM 897 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it. fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM 1083 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body. Gher - 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM 933 Views
But they didn't look alike anyway. *NM* Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:59:35 PM 600 Views
Eh, yeah. Gher - 12/06/2010 08:24:10 PM 881 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new beetnemesis - 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM 1061 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM 1145 Views
They RAFO way too much. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:56 AM 863 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM 892 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM 1170 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second... Logain - 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM 901 Views
That still proves my point... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM 1070 Views
Re: That still proves my point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM 943 Views
Then why... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM 1024 Views
Re: Then why... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM 903 Views
God, what stupidity! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM 887 Views
Re: God, what stupidity! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM 991 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM 936 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100. Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM 1219 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM 1059 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM 979 Views
You're pretty much agreeing with me, you know? fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:32:44 PM 951 Views
Yes. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/06/2010 10:31:00 PM 1064 Views
Re: Just to make things clear on the strength thing... Bored - 14/06/2010 11:21:31 PM 1277 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:48:43 PM 866 Views
Also interesting... Etzel - 10/06/2010 09:38:27 PM 1016 Views
I'm even more confused (parallel worlds and the Pattern) entyti - 10/06/2010 09:48:17 PM 985 Views
Nah,... DomA - 11/06/2010 11:38:20 AM 969 Views
Fascinating! entyti - 13/06/2010 02:30:42 AM 1056 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM 968 Views
I think she's saving that info for her WoT Encyclopedia. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:54:38 AM 1033 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. TaskmasterJack - 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM 1074 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. DomA - 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM 1009 Views
I agree Etzel - 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM 1120 Views
Re: I agree TaskmasterJack - 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM 900 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out" Etzel - 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM 941 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM 532 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM* Etzel - 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM 626 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question. TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM 948 Views
Yeah, sorry for the rolly-eyed smiley! Was a bit mean... Etzel - 13/06/2010 09:19:13 AM 954 Views
I agree with Jack and Sidious and not with you. Tom - 11/06/2010 03:20:30 PM 1060 Views
Well, on the Thom question... Etzel - 11/06/2010 08:25:09 AM 926 Views
Yeah Sidious - 11/06/2010 08:26:33 AM 1035 Views
Re: Yeah darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 12:25:21 AM 888 Views
Eh, practically useless. callandor1000 - 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM 892 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM 497 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though. callandor1000 - 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM 1472 Views
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