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Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... Shannow Send a noteboard - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM

The point is that you initially took Rand's statement about 3x Semirhage and made it all about strength. Then you added skill in later posts.

We've seen channelers of similar strength shield one another : Nynaeve/Moghedien, Rand/Lanfear, Nynaeve/Talaan.

As I said in my original post, Rand is saying that it would take 3x Forsaken powered people to smother him, and he would not be able to counter it in any way. You disputed this down the page, but in a post before this you admit that it would take that much power to overwhelm Rand's strength and skill. So which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Lanfear obviously thought that she could get a shield through with Rand, or she never would have wasted her time.


What I'm saying MAY be the same thing, but I see your ability to resist a shield as a combination of strength and skill.

Lews Therin is saying that he can resist the shield of any woman who is weaker than him (i.e. any of the Forsaken females), and he can resist the shield of any TWO of the Forsaken females, even if together they may slightly exceed his strength.

But it would take THREE Forsaken females to cut him off beyond his ability to resist.

That's what I've been saying all along. And because this ability to resist does not merely consist of holding on to the Source at the maximum of his ability, but also to slice attacking weaves, to launch attacks of his own etc., this means that if Lews Therin was at his full potential, Lanfear would not be able to threaten him in the way she did at the Docks.

The Docks was a dangerous situation for Rand due to a combination of his lack of full strength, and significant lack of knowledge and experience.
This message last edited by Shannow on 15/06/2010 at 09:27:29 PM
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No three women could block him from the Source... Logain - 15/06/2010 06:52:17 PM 2234 Views
I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 07:22:16 PM 1302 Views
I think he means that it would take three such women to smother him Sidious - 15/06/2010 07:45:03 PM 1382 Views
Ahhh... I can kind of agree with that... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:05:46 PM 1444 Views
Yes, that is what he meant. Another interesting twist... Logain - 16/06/2010 01:34:18 AM 1473 Views
Agreed. Good analysis. Shannow - 16/06/2010 07:48:36 AM 1367 Views
Re: I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... randfandom - 15/06/2010 08:17:47 PM 1317 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:19:21 PM 1415 Views
Re: Huh? randfandom - 15/06/2010 08:31:17 PM 1243 Views
fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:43:12 PM 1308 Views
Re: Code_Man65 - 15/06/2010 08:47:05 PM 1148 Views
No, this is before. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1232 Views
Well that's a different quote from the one you used before, and this one shows Lanfear not succeedin Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:52:00 PM 1223 Views
I never used a quote before. And there's no quote where Lanfear's shield is not succeeding. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:52:28 PM 1099 Views
Simple answer to settle it: Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:00:22 PM 1152 Views
So Talaan is God? fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:04:44 PM 1308 Views
It Rand had half Lews Therin's skill at the time, she would stand no chance..SKILL was her advantage Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:08:41 PM 1220 Views
Skill has nothing to do with how strong a person is. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:11:13 PM 1190 Views
So? Sidious - 15/06/2010 09:15:01 PM 1180 Views
Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM 1182 Views
Oh My God! That's such utter tripe... EDIT... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:30:29 PM 1230 Views
That's exactly how I understood you. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM 1116 Views
You do know that this was AFTER Lanfear had picked up the bracelet angreal, right? Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:49:47 PM 1230 Views
It was before... both of them start using an angreal after this. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:52:02 PM 1129 Views
Nope. 6 Aes Sedai couldn't take Raolain Darksbane or Yurian Stonebow...Semirhage = 3 Aes Sedai Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:26:21 PM 1192 Views
Lanfear can do it alone Sidious - 15/06/2010 08:45:09 PM 1173 Views
She ATTEMPTS to cut him off, when he is not at full strength or full training yet... Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:55:39 PM 1125 Views
Plus, Rand was splitting his flows, IIRC. Meaning he wasn't 100% one-on-one with her. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 08:57:35 PM 1186 Views
She was splitting her flows too... she was slicing his weaves of Air. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:59:00 PM 1178 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:58:26 PM 1184 Views
I repeat: You cannot shield someone unless you are significantly stronger than they are... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:02:55 PM 1108 Views
Explain Talaan shielding Nynaeve then. Or the two BA shielding her. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:05:21 PM 2095 Views
It becomes a battle of skill then... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:09:42 PM 1271 Views
BUT... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:12:47 PM 1171 Views
Then by your own definition you do not have to be significantly stronger to shield someone darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 11:28:44 PM 1159 Views
Re: "he would have had no need to cut her weaves" Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:03:39 PM 1113 Views
No. There's a difference. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:07:09 PM 1303 Views
Oh come on... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:48:56 PM 1304 Views
I know you are not that ignorant... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:07:02 PM 1106 Views
But that isn't true... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:10:37 PM 1141 Views
Let me spell it out for you... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:18:04 PM 1171 Views
Re: Let me spell it out for you... Sidious - 15/06/2010 09:21:02 PM 1179 Views
Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM 1314 Views
??? darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM 1322 Views
+1. It ridiculous comparison. Rand even didn't know how to shield a woman. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:22:22 PM 1153 Views
Now that's a ridiculous comparison Sidious - 15/06/2010 09:24:45 PM 1283 Views
Exactly! fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:28:20 PM 1292 Views
Touchy point, heh? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:28:47 PM 1214 Views
Then how come Lanfear never died? We know she made attempts to capture him. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:31:20 PM 1276 Views
Whom? LTT? Can you elaborate? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:33:25 PM 1219 Views
If you wish... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:34:38 PM 988 Views
Re: If you wish... Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:36:30 PM 999 Views
Whyever not? fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:39:22 PM 1084 Views
Re: Whyever not? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:41:22 PM 964 Views
Even in that situation fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:43:04 PM 1258 Views
Re: Even in that situation Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:47:36 PM 1241 Views
Okay... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:59:36 PM 1180 Views
Re: Okay... Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 10:39:01 PM 1151 Views
So, if it doesn't agree with your view, its fuzzy, even when that is what the books say? *NM* fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 10:42:48 PM 654 Views
What? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 10:45:16 PM 1114 Views
If we use your interpretation of the statements. *NM* fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 10:49:21 PM 562 Views
Re: If we use your interpretation of the statements. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 10:54:48 PM 1039 Views
Okay, here's what I think you're saying... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 11:00:19 PM 1206 Views
Re: Okay, here's what I think you're saying... Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 11:10:57 PM 1155 Views
Sorry for the mixup... BUT... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 12:28:31 AM 1206 Views
Hehehe! Classic. Maybe his hands were full of her...err..Globes of Fire... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:47:35 PM 1113 Views
I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM 1225 Views
About how strong you have to be to shield someone... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:14:31 PM 1011 Views
It's like women's tennis. Put the best up against a middling men's tennis player and they lose. *NM* Tom - 16/06/2010 12:18:06 AM 490 Views
Re: No three women could block him from the Source... Underwood - 16/06/2010 04:00:00 PM 1087 Views
+1 Skeeve the Great - 16/06/2010 05:54:51 PM 1159 Views
darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 08:48:39 PM 1397 Views
Re: Skeeve the Great - 16/06/2010 08:56:31 PM 1024 Views
indeed you have darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 09:34:22 PM 1257 Views
Bad analogy... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 04:23:31 AM 1063 Views
Uh... Sidious - 17/06/2010 09:08:01 AM 1097 Views
I disagree. LordPerrin - 16/06/2010 04:03:52 PM 1258 Views
That's wrong. Rand said 2 AS + Moghedien could threaten him Logain - 16/06/2010 05:17:33 PM 1225 Views
Huh. I forgot about that. LordPerrin - 17/06/2010 04:29:38 PM 1301 Views
go back a few posts... Kieran - 17/06/2010 03:41:42 AM 1130 Views
yet Nynaeve and Talaan can shield one another darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 05:57:09 AM 1151 Views
I'd like to think Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha could RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/06/2010 04:19:22 PM 1054 Views
Agreed darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 05:59:39 PM 958 Views
I don't think there's any theme Sidious - 17/06/2010 08:25:52 PM 1282 Views
I don't think they are meant to controll him in someway darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 10:21:09 PM 1148 Views
They have a separate trinity. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/06/2010 06:51:27 PM 1155 Views
They might be able to, but then they are not 3 women of <b>average AS</b> strength Logain - 17/06/2010 07:10:14 PM 1132 Views
They would be far more than 3 average AS darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 08:07:30 PM 1144 Views
No, that's not right either. Lews Therin Telamon - 18/06/2010 12:37:37 AM 1189 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 18/06/2010 06:07:10 AM 1272 Views
Another related quote Skeeve the Great - 18/06/2010 07:49:33 PM 1109 Views
well, in the same book about 5 minutes after Lanfear almost kicks Rands ass darius_sedai - 18/06/2010 08:11:49 PM 1190 Views
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