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Then by your own definition you do not have to be significantly stronger to shield someone darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 15/06/2010 11:28:44 PM
Let me get something straight. If Lanfear was incapable of shielding Rand at the time, he would have had no need to cut her weaves. Just like he didn't have to cut Verin and Alanna's shield, or how Graendal didn't have to cut Verin's shield at the Cleansing.

That kind of strength advantage is simply not available to Rand against Lanfear.

Now, at this time, he was as strong as Rahvin, who is as strong as Sammael, who is nearly as strong as LTT. There isn't any huge strength deficit from LTT that would magically make Rand be able to defeat Lanfear's shield in the future.


Rand's lack of knowledge of how to counter saidar was his major deficiency here.

But the fact remains, to shield someone already holding the Source is almost impossible unless you are significantly stronger than they are, or FAR more skilled than they are.

Is Lanfear Much stronger or much more skilled than Lews Therin? NO. Therefore, she cannot shield him at his full potential and skill level.


Nynaeve could as easily have shielded Talaan, but Talaan was too deft for her.


If equal strength women can shield one another based on skill then it is not necessary to be MUCH stronger than someone in order to shield them.

I think what you are getting at is what Sidious is talking about.

Egwene is 2x Sheriam, and in TGS slaps a shield over her, cutting her from the source without breaking a sweat, she is both overwhelmingly stronger and more skillful/deft than Sheriam. Thus she "smothered" her.

On the other hand Nynaeve failed to Shield Elayne despite a goodly strength difference, obviously because her shield was not woven deftly enough, but it also shows that Nynaeve is not enough stronger than Elayne to "smother". In this case Nynaeve needed to either be even stronger than Elayne than she was, or weave a far more deft shield to cut Elayne off from the source.

Later, Nynaeve is able to shield (and them become shielded) by an equally strong channeler. Meaning the shields in question had the necessary deftness to perform the task.

What this means is that Lanfear was able to weave a shield with sufficient deftness and strength to in fact cut Rand from the source, but he was skilled enough to defend himself and thus avoid being cut off (if only just). I agree that in all likelihood at full Strength Lanfear would be unable to shield Rand, but it would be close IMO as Rand was already at least as strong as an average strength male Forsaken. 2 Forsaken would easily smother Rand.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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No three women could block him from the Source... - 15/06/2010 06:52:17 PM 2072 Views
I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 07:22:16 PM 1150 Views
I think he means that it would take three such women to smother him - 15/06/2010 07:45:03 PM 1220 Views
Ahhh... I can kind of agree with that... - 15/06/2010 08:05:46 PM 1288 Views
Yes, that is what he meant. Another interesting twist... - 16/06/2010 01:34:18 AM 1263 Views
Agreed. Good analysis. - 16/06/2010 07:48:36 AM 1230 Views
Re: I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 08:17:47 PM 1171 Views
Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:19:21 PM 1270 Views
Re: Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:31:17 PM 1101 Views
- 15/06/2010 08:43:12 PM 1180 Views
Re: - 15/06/2010 08:47:05 PM 1005 Views
No, this is before. - 15/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1076 Views
Well that's a different quote from the one you used before, and this one shows Lanfear not succeedin - 15/06/2010 08:52:00 PM 1082 Views
I never used a quote before. And there's no quote where Lanfear's shield is not succeeding. - 15/06/2010 08:52:28 PM 948 Views
Simple answer to settle it: - 15/06/2010 09:00:22 PM 966 Views
So Talaan is God? - 15/06/2010 09:04:44 PM 1155 Views
It Rand had half Lews Therin's skill at the time, she would stand no chance..SKILL was her advantage - 15/06/2010 09:08:41 PM 1077 Views
Skill has nothing to do with how strong a person is. - 15/06/2010 09:11:13 PM 1059 Views
So? - 15/06/2010 09:15:01 PM 1052 Views
Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM 1021 Views
Oh My God! That's such utter tripe... EDIT... - 15/06/2010 09:30:29 PM 1098 Views
That's exactly how I understood you. - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM 946 Views
Nope. 6 Aes Sedai couldn't take Raolain Darksbane or Yurian Stonebow...Semirhage = 3 Aes Sedai - 15/06/2010 08:26:21 PM 1015 Views
Lanfear can do it alone - 15/06/2010 08:45:09 PM 1025 Views
She ATTEMPTS to cut him off, when he is not at full strength or full training yet... - 15/06/2010 08:55:39 PM 982 Views
Plus, Rand was splitting his flows, IIRC. Meaning he wasn't 100% one-on-one with her. - 15/06/2010 08:57:35 PM 1025 Views
She was splitting her flows too... she was slicing his weaves of Air. - 15/06/2010 08:59:00 PM 1039 Views
Bah! - 15/06/2010 08:58:26 PM 1018 Views
I repeat: You cannot shield someone unless you are significantly stronger than they are... - 15/06/2010 09:02:55 PM 962 Views
Explain Talaan shielding Nynaeve then. Or the two BA shielding her. - 15/06/2010 09:05:21 PM 1948 Views
It becomes a battle of skill then... - 15/06/2010 09:09:42 PM 1132 Views
BUT... - 15/06/2010 09:12:47 PM 1050 Views
Then by your own definition you do not have to be significantly stronger to shield someone - 15/06/2010 11:28:44 PM 1013 Views
Re: "he would have had no need to cut her weaves" - 15/06/2010 09:03:39 PM 973 Views
No. There's a difference. - 15/06/2010 09:07:09 PM 1160 Views
Oh come on... - 15/06/2010 08:48:56 PM 1177 Views
I know you are not that ignorant... - 15/06/2010 09:07:02 PM 956 Views
But that isn't true... - 15/06/2010 09:10:37 PM 1006 Views
Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:18:04 PM 1006 Views
Re: Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:21:02 PM 991 Views
Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM 1144 Views
??? - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM 1156 Views
+1. It ridiculous comparison. Rand even didn't know how to shield a woman. - 15/06/2010 09:22:22 PM 1009 Views
Now that's a ridiculous comparison - 15/06/2010 09:24:45 PM 1130 Views
Exactly! - 15/06/2010 09:28:20 PM 1144 Views
Touchy point, heh? - 15/06/2010 09:28:47 PM 1080 Views
Then how come Lanfear never died? We know she made attempts to capture him. - 15/06/2010 09:31:20 PM 1103 Views
Whom? LTT? Can you elaborate? - 15/06/2010 09:33:25 PM 1101 Views
If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:34:38 PM 856 Views
Re: If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:36:30 PM 874 Views
Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:39:22 PM 947 Views
Re: Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:41:22 PM 828 Views
Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:43:04 PM 1121 Views
Re: Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:47:36 PM 1108 Views
Okay... - 15/06/2010 09:59:36 PM 1047 Views
Re: Okay... - 15/06/2010 10:39:01 PM 1017 Views
So, if it doesn't agree with your view, its fuzzy, even when that is what the books say? *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:42:48 PM 588 Views
What? - 15/06/2010 10:45:16 PM 963 Views
If we use your interpretation of the statements. *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:49:21 PM 497 Views
Re: If we use your interpretation of the statements. - 15/06/2010 10:54:48 PM 891 Views
Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:00:19 PM 1064 Views
Re: Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:10:57 PM 1024 Views
Sorry for the mixup... BUT... - 16/06/2010 12:28:31 AM 1075 Views
I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM 1099 Views
About how strong you have to be to shield someone... - 15/06/2010 09:14:31 PM 852 Views
Re: No three women could block him from the Source... - 16/06/2010 04:00:00 PM 943 Views
+1 - 16/06/2010 05:54:51 PM 1027 Views
- 16/06/2010 08:48:39 PM 1227 Views
Re: - 16/06/2010 08:56:31 PM 880 Views
indeed you have - 16/06/2010 09:34:22 PM 1128 Views
Bad analogy... - 17/06/2010 04:23:31 AM 927 Views
Uh... - 17/06/2010 09:08:01 AM 966 Views
I disagree. - 16/06/2010 04:03:52 PM 1107 Views
That's wrong. Rand said 2 AS + Moghedien could threaten him - 16/06/2010 05:17:33 PM 1081 Views
Huh. I forgot about that. - 17/06/2010 04:29:38 PM 1171 Views
go back a few posts... - 17/06/2010 03:41:42 AM 1011 Views
yet Nynaeve and Talaan can shield one another - 17/06/2010 05:57:09 AM 1007 Views
I'd like to think Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha could - 17/06/2010 04:19:22 PM 938 Views
Agreed - 17/06/2010 05:59:39 PM 837 Views
I don't think there's any theme - 17/06/2010 08:25:52 PM 1146 Views
I don't think they are meant to controll him in someway - 17/06/2010 10:21:09 PM 1007 Views
They have a separate trinity. - 18/06/2010 06:51:27 PM 1019 Views
They might be able to, but then they are not 3 women of <b>average AS</b> strength - 17/06/2010 07:10:14 PM 997 Views
They would be far more than 3 average AS - 17/06/2010 08:07:30 PM 1007 Views
No, that's not right either. - 18/06/2010 12:37:37 AM 1048 Views
I disagree - 18/06/2010 06:07:10 AM 1142 Views
Another related quote - 18/06/2010 07:49:33 PM 989 Views
well, in the same book about 5 minutes after Lanfear almost kicks Rands ass - 18/06/2010 08:11:49 PM 1043 Views

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