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Then by your own definition you do not have to be significantly stronger to shield someone darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 15/06/2010 11:28:44 PM
Let me get something straight. If Lanfear was incapable of shielding Rand at the time, he would have had no need to cut her weaves. Just like he didn't have to cut Verin and Alanna's shield, or how Graendal didn't have to cut Verin's shield at the Cleansing.

That kind of strength advantage is simply not available to Rand against Lanfear.

Now, at this time, he was as strong as Rahvin, who is as strong as Sammael, who is nearly as strong as LTT. There isn't any huge strength deficit from LTT that would magically make Rand be able to defeat Lanfear's shield in the future.


Rand's lack of knowledge of how to counter saidar was his major deficiency here.

But the fact remains, to shield someone already holding the Source is almost impossible unless you are significantly stronger than they are, or FAR more skilled than they are.

Is Lanfear Much stronger or much more skilled than Lews Therin? NO. Therefore, she cannot shield him at his full potential and skill level.


Nynaeve could as easily have shielded Talaan, but Talaan was too deft for her.


If equal strength women can shield one another based on skill then it is not necessary to be MUCH stronger than someone in order to shield them.

I think what you are getting at is what Sidious is talking about.

Egwene is 2x Sheriam, and in TGS slaps a shield over her, cutting her from the source without breaking a sweat, she is both overwhelmingly stronger and more skillful/deft than Sheriam. Thus she "smothered" her.

On the other hand Nynaeve failed to Shield Elayne despite a goodly strength difference, obviously because her shield was not woven deftly enough, but it also shows that Nynaeve is not enough stronger than Elayne to "smother". In this case Nynaeve needed to either be even stronger than Elayne than she was, or weave a far more deft shield to cut Elayne off from the source.

Later, Nynaeve is able to shield (and them become shielded) by an equally strong channeler. Meaning the shields in question had the necessary deftness to perform the task.

What this means is that Lanfear was able to weave a shield with sufficient deftness and strength to in fact cut Rand from the source, but he was skilled enough to defend himself and thus avoid being cut off (if only just). I agree that in all likelihood at full Strength Lanfear would be unable to shield Rand, but it would be close IMO as Rand was already at least as strong as an average strength male Forsaken. 2 Forsaken would easily smother Rand.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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No three women could block him from the Source... - 15/06/2010 06:52:17 PM 2255 Views
I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 07:22:16 PM 1323 Views
I think he means that it would take three such women to smother him - 15/06/2010 07:45:03 PM 1406 Views
Ahhh... I can kind of agree with that... - 15/06/2010 08:05:46 PM 1470 Views
Yes, that is what he meant. Another interesting twist... - 16/06/2010 01:34:18 AM 1501 Views
Agreed. Good analysis. - 16/06/2010 07:48:36 AM 1396 Views
Re: I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 08:17:47 PM 1344 Views
Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:19:21 PM 1438 Views
Re: Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:31:17 PM 1266 Views
- 15/06/2010 08:43:12 PM 1330 Views
Re: - 15/06/2010 08:47:05 PM 1178 Views
No, this is before. - 15/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1258 Views
Well that's a different quote from the one you used before, and this one shows Lanfear not succeedin - 15/06/2010 08:52:00 PM 1245 Views
I never used a quote before. And there's no quote where Lanfear's shield is not succeeding. - 15/06/2010 08:52:28 PM 1123 Views
Simple answer to settle it: - 15/06/2010 09:00:22 PM 1181 Views
So Talaan is God? - 15/06/2010 09:04:44 PM 1335 Views
It Rand had half Lews Therin's skill at the time, she would stand no chance..SKILL was her advantage - 15/06/2010 09:08:41 PM 1241 Views
Skill has nothing to do with how strong a person is. - 15/06/2010 09:11:13 PM 1212 Views
So? - 15/06/2010 09:15:01 PM 1203 Views
Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM 1205 Views
Oh My God! That's such utter tripe... EDIT... - 15/06/2010 09:30:29 PM 1251 Views
That's exactly how I understood you. - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM 1147 Views
Nope. 6 Aes Sedai couldn't take Raolain Darksbane or Yurian Stonebow...Semirhage = 3 Aes Sedai - 15/06/2010 08:26:21 PM 1218 Views
Lanfear can do it alone - 15/06/2010 08:45:09 PM 1198 Views
She ATTEMPTS to cut him off, when he is not at full strength or full training yet... - 15/06/2010 08:55:39 PM 1146 Views
Plus, Rand was splitting his flows, IIRC. Meaning he wasn't 100% one-on-one with her. - 15/06/2010 08:57:35 PM 1211 Views
She was splitting her flows too... she was slicing his weaves of Air. - 15/06/2010 08:59:00 PM 1201 Views
Bah! - 15/06/2010 08:58:26 PM 1219 Views
I repeat: You cannot shield someone unless you are significantly stronger than they are... - 15/06/2010 09:02:55 PM 1136 Views
Explain Talaan shielding Nynaeve then. Or the two BA shielding her. - 15/06/2010 09:05:21 PM 2122 Views
It becomes a battle of skill then... - 15/06/2010 09:09:42 PM 1299 Views
BUT... - 15/06/2010 09:12:47 PM 1196 Views
Then by your own definition you do not have to be significantly stronger to shield someone - 15/06/2010 11:28:44 PM 1181 Views
Re: "he would have had no need to cut her weaves" - 15/06/2010 09:03:39 PM 1139 Views
No. There's a difference. - 15/06/2010 09:07:09 PM 1329 Views
Oh come on... - 15/06/2010 08:48:56 PM 1325 Views
I know you are not that ignorant... - 15/06/2010 09:07:02 PM 1125 Views
But that isn't true... - 15/06/2010 09:10:37 PM 1163 Views
Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:18:04 PM 1199 Views
Re: Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:21:02 PM 1201 Views
Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM 1348 Views
??? - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM 1349 Views
+1. It ridiculous comparison. Rand even didn't know how to shield a woman. - 15/06/2010 09:22:22 PM 1176 Views
Now that's a ridiculous comparison - 15/06/2010 09:24:45 PM 1304 Views
Exactly! - 15/06/2010 09:28:20 PM 1313 Views
Touchy point, heh? - 15/06/2010 09:28:47 PM 1239 Views
Then how come Lanfear never died? We know she made attempts to capture him. - 15/06/2010 09:31:20 PM 1301 Views
Whom? LTT? Can you elaborate? - 15/06/2010 09:33:25 PM 1240 Views
If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:34:38 PM 1018 Views
Re: If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:36:30 PM 1016 Views
Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:39:22 PM 1106 Views
Re: Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:41:22 PM 994 Views
Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:43:04 PM 1279 Views
Re: Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:47:36 PM 1266 Views
Okay... - 15/06/2010 09:59:36 PM 1204 Views
Re: Okay... - 15/06/2010 10:39:01 PM 1175 Views
So, if it doesn't agree with your view, its fuzzy, even when that is what the books say? *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:42:48 PM 664 Views
What? - 15/06/2010 10:45:16 PM 1135 Views
If we use your interpretation of the statements. *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:49:21 PM 569 Views
Re: If we use your interpretation of the statements. - 15/06/2010 10:54:48 PM 1061 Views
Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:00:19 PM 1225 Views
Re: Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:10:57 PM 1174 Views
Sorry for the mixup... BUT... - 16/06/2010 12:28:31 AM 1223 Views
I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM 1250 Views
About how strong you have to be to shield someone... - 15/06/2010 09:14:31 PM 1038 Views
Re: No three women could block him from the Source... - 16/06/2010 04:00:00 PM 1106 Views
+1 - 16/06/2010 05:54:51 PM 1183 Views
- 16/06/2010 08:48:39 PM 1423 Views
Re: - 16/06/2010 08:56:31 PM 1054 Views
indeed you have - 16/06/2010 09:34:22 PM 1280 Views
Bad analogy... - 17/06/2010 04:23:31 AM 1089 Views
Uh... - 17/06/2010 09:08:01 AM 1124 Views
I disagree. - 16/06/2010 04:03:52 PM 1286 Views
That's wrong. Rand said 2 AS + Moghedien could threaten him - 16/06/2010 05:17:33 PM 1249 Views
Huh. I forgot about that. - 17/06/2010 04:29:38 PM 1328 Views
go back a few posts... - 17/06/2010 03:41:42 AM 1160 Views
yet Nynaeve and Talaan can shield one another - 17/06/2010 05:57:09 AM 1178 Views
I'd like to think Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha could - 17/06/2010 04:19:22 PM 1081 Views
Agreed - 17/06/2010 05:59:39 PM 982 Views
I don't think there's any theme - 17/06/2010 08:25:52 PM 1312 Views
I don't think they are meant to controll him in someway - 17/06/2010 10:21:09 PM 1170 Views
They have a separate trinity. - 18/06/2010 06:51:27 PM 1179 Views
They might be able to, but then they are not 3 women of <b>average AS</b> strength - 17/06/2010 07:10:14 PM 1155 Views
They would be far more than 3 average AS - 17/06/2010 08:07:30 PM 1166 Views
No, that's not right either. - 18/06/2010 12:37:37 AM 1212 Views
I disagree - 18/06/2010 06:07:10 AM 1296 Views
Another related quote - 18/06/2010 07:49:33 PM 1130 Views
well, in the same book about 5 minutes after Lanfear almost kicks Rands ass - 18/06/2010 08:11:49 PM 1222 Views

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