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Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 14/07/2010 07:10:49 AM

Because I think her death was a statement about Rand's character. He went from not wanting to kill any women or innocents to nuking the palace where he was pretty sure Graendal probably was but her innocent pets certainly were. It's a huge leap for him. It's profound. I think if Graendal survived it that would invalidate a lot of what we felt when he did that, makes it less of a game changer.

But this doesn't make sense. Rand broke lose, violated his principles, violated good sense, and decided he's going to do whatever it takes to kill Graendal, so that he can leave Arad Doman safe and carry on with his "important tasks".

Well, he thinks he killed her, but Arad Doman is going to continue to suffer. Should it turn out that Graendal is alive, it will only add to the lesson Rand needed to learn that ignoring humanity and doing anything you want to to destroy an enemy is not right.

Should it be that Rand killing all those pets of hers was, in the end, futile, would only add to the theme.


Once the lesson has already been learned? That would be pretty futile.

All this is quite apart from the very logical reasons which point to her not dying.


There is no logical reason for her not dying. Every hypothesis on her survival has been thus:

Graendal is a genius,
[Any number of unsupported imagined possibilities],
Therefore, Graendal survived.

And ignoring all the evidence that indicates she is dead.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

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What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? Sidious - 13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM 2139 Views
Too convulted to make any sense... Etzel - 13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM 1081 Views
Too convulted...... Jeordam - 14/07/2010 07:26:26 PM 1302 Views
The logic is rather... Etzel - 15/07/2010 05:09:30 PM 981 Views
What is the reason Delana is with Graendal? Artsapat - 13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM 1158 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM 1062 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM 1121 Views
That is wrong Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM 952 Views
Re: That is wrong Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM 1033 Views
It's not at all... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:35:49 AM 938 Views
Plus... Etzel - 13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM 869 Views
I agree with part and disagree with part. Logain - 14/07/2010 06:39:36 PM 943 Views
exactly darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 06:43:14 PM 954 Views
Does the Compulsion fit Graendal? Lohikaarme - 13/07/2010 03:40:36 PM 1011 Views
sorry but no dacole - 13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM 1081 Views
Exactly Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM 924 Views
Yeah dacole provided powerful evidence *NM* Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:25:13 AM 519 Views
Actually... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:30:24 AM 971 Views
Or, as with Moghedien. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 02:35:44 PM 1122 Views
It makes perfect sense. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM 989 Views
I won't be 100% sure she's dead until we get a solid "she's toast" from either the text darius_sedai - 13/07/2010 04:21:18 PM 1001 Views
This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM* darius_sedai - 13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM 653 Views
Until I have absolute proof to the contrary.(Confirmation by Harriot or BS) krassos - 13/07/2010 04:20:49 PM 911 Views
If Graendal didn't know Rand would use balefire, why would she have Delana do the Compulsion? beetnemesis - 13/07/2010 04:57:10 PM 1187 Views
Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand. Fanatic-Templar - 13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM 1085 Views
I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM 1056 Views
Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them Sidious - 13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM 959 Views
Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them Underwood - 13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM 1033 Views
You draw too much attention to yourself, Mr Underwood *NM* Sidious - 14/07/2010 05:13:42 AM 615 Views
Ha, nice! *NM* Underwood - 14/07/2010 04:05:00 PM 516 Views
What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple. Fanatic-Templar - 13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM 1028 Views
Huh Sidious - 14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM 1025 Views
Why did the lair explode? Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM 976 Views
*NM* Skeeve the Great - 14/07/2010 01:58:17 PM 674 Views
While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail. Mik - 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM 1162 Views
What did Rand tell Ramshalan... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM 867 Views
Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan... darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM 954 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 1142 Views
he doesn't have to read Rands mind darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM 908 Views
Provide a quote. Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM 1039 Views
read the chapter darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM 876 Views
Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't. Fanatic-Templar - 10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM 1001 Views
sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM 1089 Views
Was that what I asked for? Fanatic-Templar - 11/08/2010 04:05:41 AM 837 Views
sorry misunderstood what you were looking for darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 04:50:17 PM 890 Views
Oh if that's what you want darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM 1007 Views
Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress. Fanatic-Templar - 11/08/2010 06:57:39 PM 923 Views
Re: Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress. darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 09:20:10 PM 915 Views
why does it have to be a well thought out plan? darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM 887 Views
She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion. Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM 869 Views
No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM 963 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM 1012 Views
yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM 1008 Views
Which ones? Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM 887 Views
Re: Which ones? Sidious - 15/07/2010 05:25:28 AM 987 Views
Well. Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 06:53:29 AM 861 Views
Actually I think it's one of those things that make AS so stupid darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:36:43 PM 956 Views
the Sorilea moment is when they first meet Semirhage darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:32:26 PM 1022 Views
Thanks for the quote. Fanatic-Templar - 10/08/2010 10:02:36 PM 1093 Views
Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. saidarisnowtainted - 14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM 887 Views
She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion BlackAdder - 13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM 897 Views
we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM 1020 Views
Ramshalan didn't know the plan as you claim Skeeve the Great - 14/07/2010 04:16:29 PM 812 Views
he knew enough to alert Graendal to the danger darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:50:26 PM 1053 Views
No. Don't think so. Tom - 13/07/2010 08:35:34 PM 878 Views
I so desperately want you to be right. Seriana Sedai - 14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM 1037 Views
Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM 943 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 07:10:49 AM 1035 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Seriana Sedai - 15/07/2010 10:50:05 PM 964 Views
Yip Sidious - 14/07/2010 04:33:03 PM 934 Views
Lame. eucatastrophe - 14/07/2010 10:44:47 AM 874 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:15:38 PM 833 Views
she's dead, get over it *NM* Yunalesca - 14/07/2010 01:12:15 PM 567 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? saidarisnowtainted - 14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM 878 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM 968 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? saidarisnowtainted - 10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM 1074 Views
Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM* Lord Haart - 13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM 346 Views
*shrug* Seems a bit complex to me... Jeordam - 14/07/2010 07:17:49 PM 1261 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? Underwood - 15/07/2010 04:38:09 PM 989 Views
Honestly, if she's still alive, how is she going to die? Gher - 16/07/2010 05:49:06 AM 887 Views
Ahh, just remembered that some people think some Forsaken will survive Tarmon Gai'don. Still... *NM* Gher - 16/07/2010 05:51:41 AM 470 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? scooter - 10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM 860 Views
Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM 844 Views
Because he was right, that's why. Terez - 11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM 859 Views
Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM 819 Views
No one ever gets every detail right - it's impossible Terez - 11/11/2010 06:06:26 AM 1084 Views
Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM 962 Views
Re: Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* scooter - 11/11/2010 04:12:38 AM 965 Views
Please try to maintain some decorum. *Also ToM spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 04:45:08 AM 909 Views
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