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why does it have to be a well thought out plan? darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM
And what's the use in teaching him to act like you if you expect the lair to blow up? Why do you expect the lair to blow up? Why don't they intend to arrest you? Why is the chief of police coming in person? Who are they shooting at if they intend to just blow up the place anyway?

Anyway, here's a few things people seem to ignore.

Graendal didn't flee when someone warped in - she waited until someone came to her door, met her, got Compelled and sent back out. And then, people suggest, she fled. Why? Fleeing from Rand as soon as she felt him Travel to her location would be quite credible, this is what she said she would do multiple times. Fleeing after the visit is downright absurd. What if Rand hadn't sent Ramshalan first? Again, this plan that people like to hypothesise makes no sense - it requires her to leave herself open to far simpler attacks in order to counter the one, single, unexpected attack for no reason beyond fulfilling the desires of people who start off with the conclusion that she could have escaped.

Now, someone might say she had already fled when Ramshalan arrived and the pawn channeler did everything of her own accord. Of course, this makes little sense either. Barring that we have seen little from Graendal that indicates she would be willing to teach her talents to some insignificant sacrificial pawn, barring that we have no indication that such a sacrificial pawn even exists, barring that we have no reason to believe Aran'gar and Delana were ever at Graendal's place, and barring that even if they did, Graendal would still need to have someone else already in place to execute that plan before they came anyway - because if this was such a well-planned counter, then surely she had it prepared the moment Rand hinted at coming to Arad Doman, not when Aran'gar arrived - barring all that, it still doesn't make sense because said sacrificial pawn wouldn't know what orders to Compel into the target if Graendal wasn't there to tell her. And Graendal wouldn't know what orders to give unless she saw the visitor. Which brings us back to the previous point, Graendal had to be there when Ramshalan arrived, therefore, her fleeing makes no sense, because she would have fled after the expected threat came.

In order to avoid this, the sacrificial channeling pawn would have to not only be entrusted by Graendal with her Compulsion knowledge, but also imparted a significant array of her plans and schemes, so that the pawn could Compel according to her own judgment based on who the intruder was and what Graendal's plans entailed. It would also required Graendal to trust the sacrificial pawn to have correct judgment regarding her actions vis à vis the intruder. Anyone who actually thinks this sounds like something a Forsaken would do understand less than nothing about the Forsaken.


honestly all she had to do was have Ramshalan stumble in, get some info out of him, make a few quick conclusions and turn to Delana ... "You, worm, put this weave on him" ... demonstrate the weave for Delana. Then grab Aran'gar and get the hell out of dodge.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM 1912 Views
Too convulted to make any sense... - 13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM 876 Views
Too convulted...... - 14/07/2010 07:26:26 PM 989 Views
The logic is rather... - 15/07/2010 05:09:30 PM 767 Views
What is the reason Delana is with Graendal? - 13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM 941 Views
Indeed... - 13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM 857 Views
Re: Indeed... - 13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM 893 Views
That is wrong - 13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM 728 Views
Re: That is wrong - 13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM 814 Views
It's not at all... - 13/07/2010 10:35:49 AM 729 Views
Plus... - 13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM 664 Views
I agree with part and disagree with part. - 14/07/2010 06:39:36 PM 731 Views
exactly - 14/07/2010 06:43:14 PM 734 Views
Does the Compulsion fit Graendal? - 13/07/2010 03:40:36 PM 798 Views
sorry but no - 13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM 857 Views
Exactly - 13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM 746 Views
Yeah dacole provided powerful evidence *NM* - 13/07/2010 10:25:13 AM 422 Views
Actually... - 13/07/2010 10:30:24 AM 772 Views
Or, as with Moghedien. - 13/07/2010 02:35:44 PM 917 Views
It makes perfect sense. - 13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM 780 Views
This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM* - 13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM 549 Views
Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand. - 13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM 842 Views
I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. - 13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM 856 Views
Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them - 13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM 756 Views
Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them - 13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM 818 Views
You draw too much attention to yourself, Mr Underwood *NM* - 14/07/2010 05:13:42 AM 514 Views
Ha, nice! *NM* - 14/07/2010 04:05:00 PM 420 Views
What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple. - 13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM 821 Views
Huh - 14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM 791 Views
Why did the lair explode? - 14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM 739 Views
*NM* - 14/07/2010 01:58:17 PM 575 Views
While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail. - 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM 923 Views
What did Rand tell Ramshalan... - 14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM 645 Views
Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan... - 14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM 734 Views
... - 14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 932 Views
he doesn't have to read Rands mind - 14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM 694 Views
Provide a quote. - 15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM 833 Views
read the chapter - 10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM 657 Views
Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't. - 10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM 778 Views
sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate - 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM 853 Views
Was that what I asked for? - 11/08/2010 04:05:41 AM 623 Views
sorry misunderstood what you were looking for - 11/08/2010 04:50:17 PM 631 Views
Oh if that's what you want - 11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM 794 Views
why does it have to be a well thought out plan? - 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM 658 Views
She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion. - 14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM 638 Views
No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate - 14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM 741 Views
Nonsense. - 14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM 765 Views
yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance - 14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM 794 Views
Which ones? - 15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM 679 Views
Re: Which ones? - 15/07/2010 05:25:28 AM 776 Views
Well. - 15/07/2010 06:53:29 AM 655 Views
Actually I think it's one of those things that make AS so stupid - 10/08/2010 09:36:43 PM 749 Views
the Sorilea moment is when they first meet Semirhage - 10/08/2010 09:32:26 PM 817 Views
Thanks for the quote. - 10/08/2010 10:02:36 PM 838 Views
Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. - 14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM 668 Views
She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion - 13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM 685 Views
we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves - 14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM 789 Views
Ramshalan didn't know the plan as you claim - 14/07/2010 04:16:29 PM 604 Views
he knew enough to alert Graendal to the danger - 14/07/2010 04:50:26 PM 844 Views
No. Don't think so. - 13/07/2010 08:35:34 PM 664 Views
I so desperately want you to be right. - 14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM 829 Views
Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM 745 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 14/07/2010 07:10:49 AM 803 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 15/07/2010 10:50:05 PM 714 Views
Yip - 14/07/2010 04:33:03 PM 722 Views
Lame. - 14/07/2010 10:44:47 AM 671 Views
Not really - 14/07/2010 04:15:38 PM 616 Views
she's dead, get over it *NM* - 14/07/2010 01:12:15 PM 463 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM 672 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM 761 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM 859 Views
Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM* - 13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM 249 Views
*shrug* Seems a bit complex to me... - 14/07/2010 07:17:49 PM 936 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 15/07/2010 04:38:09 PM 770 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM 673 Views
Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* - 10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM 641 Views
Because he was right, that's why. - 11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM 653 Views
Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM 586 Views
No one ever gets every detail right - it's impossible - 11/11/2010 06:06:26 AM 875 Views
Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.* - 11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM 751 Views
Re: Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:12:38 AM 750 Views
Please try to maintain some decorum. *Also ToM spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:45:08 AM 695 Views

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