Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.*
Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM
If you look back at the arguments people were having, a lot of them, mine included, were that the concept of Graendal planning this entire thing was ridiculous. And we were right - Graendal didn't plan the whole thing. She couldn't have, it would require an absurd amount of exclusive predictions. That is why I thought that Sidious was wrong then, and that is why I think Sidious is still wrong now.
I do admit that it was clever of Sidious to predict the use of Delana as a sacrificial pawn to explain the disappearing Compulsion. But that was never the central aspect of his theory. It was only one of the elements that Graendal used in her brilliant plan to escape Rand. But there was no brilliant plan, or at least, none for this occasion. Graendal was outplayed.
I have a theory that Cadsuane will die before the end of the series. That theory claims that Taim will be the one to kill her. If Cadsuane were to die from other means, should I be right to claim that my theory was accurate? Maybe you believe so, in which case this is merely a difference in opinions. But I cannot say that a theory that revolves around Graendal's brilliant plan for survival is correct just because Graendal survived despite being completely fooled.
In this theory, I see two things: the conclusion - Graendal survived - and the core reasoning behind it - Graendal survived because she planned for this eventuality.
The rest are what I would consider details - that she teaches Delana Compulsion or that she already knows it, that Graendal planned this from the moment Aran'gar arrived, that Graendal and Aran'gar were working together, that Delana would be used as a scapegoat, that she would rely on Aran'gar sensing saidin, that they would both escape, and so on. I would certainly not begrudge Sidious if he had any of these wrong, if the core of the theory was right. I'd probably point them out just because it's Sidious and I've been faltering in my duties as archnemesis, but I wouldn't claim his theory wrong for this. I doubt he'd be offended either, he himself said he didn't believe that Graendal was alive, and that this was just a thought exercise.
As I remember from the time, there were a lot of people claiming Graendal had survived. And the prime reason given was always thus: Graendal is too clever to get tricked by this plan of Rand's. As you know, this was wrong. The fact that this brings them to an accurate conclusion is coincidental - I could have flipped a coin about Graendal's survival and it would give me 50% odds of getting the correct conclusion. For me, the reasoning matters.
I do admit that it was clever of Sidious to predict the use of Delana as a sacrificial pawn to explain the disappearing Compulsion. But that was never the central aspect of his theory. It was only one of the elements that Graendal used in her brilliant plan to escape Rand. But there was no brilliant plan, or at least, none for this occasion. Graendal was outplayed.
I have a theory that Cadsuane will die before the end of the series. That theory claims that Taim will be the one to kill her. If Cadsuane were to die from other means, should I be right to claim that my theory was accurate? Maybe you believe so, in which case this is merely a difference in opinions. But I cannot say that a theory that revolves around Graendal's brilliant plan for survival is correct just because Graendal survived despite being completely fooled.
In this theory, I see two things: the conclusion - Graendal survived - and the core reasoning behind it - Graendal survived because she planned for this eventuality.
The rest are what I would consider details - that she teaches Delana Compulsion or that she already knows it, that Graendal planned this from the moment Aran'gar arrived, that Graendal and Aran'gar were working together, that Delana would be used as a scapegoat, that she would rely on Aran'gar sensing saidin, that they would both escape, and so on. I would certainly not begrudge Sidious if he had any of these wrong, if the core of the theory was right. I'd probably point them out just because it's Sidious and I've been faltering in my duties as archnemesis, but I wouldn't claim his theory wrong for this. I doubt he'd be offended either, he himself said he didn't believe that Graendal was alive, and that this was just a thought exercise.
As I remember from the time, there were a lot of people claiming Graendal had survived. And the prime reason given was always thus: Graendal is too clever to get tricked by this plan of Rand's. As you know, this was wrong. The fact that this brings them to an accurate conclusion is coincidental - I could have flipped a coin about Graendal's survival and it would give me 50% odds of getting the correct conclusion. For me, the reasoning matters.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
This message last edited by Fanatic-Templar on 11/11/2010 at 06:47:18 AM
What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM
- 1912 Views
Too convulted to make any sense...
13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM
- 876 Views
What is the reason Delana is with Graendal?
13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM
- 941 Views
Indeed...
13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM
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Re: Indeed...
13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM
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That is wrong
13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM
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Re: That is wrong
13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM
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Plus...
13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM
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sorry but no
13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM
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Exactly
13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM
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It makes perfect sense.
13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM
- 780 Views
I won't be 100% sure she's dead until we get a solid "she's toast" from either the text
13/07/2010 04:21:18 PM
- 780 Views
This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM*
13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM
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Until I have absolute proof to the contrary.(Confirmation by Harriot or BS)
13/07/2010 04:20:49 PM
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If Graendal didn't know Rand would use balefire, why would she have Delana do the Compulsion?
13/07/2010 04:57:10 PM
- 940 Views
Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand.
13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM
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I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted.
13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM
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Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them
13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM
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Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them
13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM
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What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple.
13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM
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Huh
14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM
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Why did the lair explode?
14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM
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While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail.
14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM
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What did Rand tell Ramshalan...
14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM
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Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan...
14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM
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...
14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM
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he doesn't have to read Rands mind
14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM
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Provide a quote.
15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM
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read the chapter
10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM
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Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't.
10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM
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sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate
11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM
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Oh if that's what you want
11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM
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Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress.
11/08/2010 06:57:39 PM
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Re: Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress.
11/08/2010 09:20:10 PM
- 701 Views
why does it have to be a well thought out plan?
14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM
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She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion.
14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM
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No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate
14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM
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Nonsense.
14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM
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yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance
14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM
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Which ones?
15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM
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Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted.
14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM
- 667 Views
She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion
13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM
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we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves
14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM
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I so desperately want you to be right.
14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM
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Graendal being alive would make more of a statement...
14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM
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Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM
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Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM
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Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM
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Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM*
13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM
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Honestly, if she's still alive, how is she going to die?
16/07/2010 05:49:06 AM
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Ahh, just remembered that some people think some Forsaken will survive Tarmon Gai'don. Still... *NM*
16/07/2010 05:51:41 AM
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Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM
- 673 Views
Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers*
10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM
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Because he was right, that's why.
11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM
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Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers*
11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM
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No one ever gets every detail right - it's impossible
11/11/2010 06:06:26 AM
- 875 Views
Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.*
11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM
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