why does it have to be a well thought out plan?
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM
And what's the use in teaching him to act like you if you expect the lair to blow up? Why do you expect the lair to blow up? Why don't they intend to arrest you? Why is the chief of police coming in person? Who are they shooting at if they intend to just blow up the place anyway?
Anyway, here's a few things people seem to ignore.
Graendal didn't flee when someone warped in - she waited until someone came to her door, met her, got Compelled and sent back out. And then, people suggest, she fled. Why? Fleeing from Rand as soon as she felt him Travel to her location would be quite credible, this is what she said she would do multiple times. Fleeing after the visit is downright absurd. What if Rand hadn't sent Ramshalan first? Again, this plan that people like to hypothesise makes no sense - it requires her to leave herself open to far simpler attacks in order to counter the one, single, unexpected attack for no reason beyond fulfilling the desires of people who start off with the conclusion that she could have escaped.
Now, someone might say she had already fled when Ramshalan arrived and the pawn channeler did everything of her own accord. Of course, this makes little sense either. Barring that we have seen little from Graendal that indicates she would be willing to teach her talents to some insignificant sacrificial pawn, barring that we have no indication that such a sacrificial pawn even exists, barring that we have no reason to believe Aran'gar and Delana were ever at Graendal's place, and barring that even if they did, Graendal would still need to have someone else already in place to execute that plan before they came anyway - because if this was such a well-planned counter, then surely she had it prepared the moment Rand hinted at coming to Arad Doman, not when Aran'gar arrived - barring all that, it still doesn't make sense because said sacrificial pawn wouldn't know what orders to Compel into the target if Graendal wasn't there to tell her. And Graendal wouldn't know what orders to give unless she saw the visitor. Which brings us back to the previous point, Graendal had to be there when Ramshalan arrived, therefore, her fleeing makes no sense, because she would have fled after the expected threat came.
In order to avoid this, the sacrificial channeling pawn would have to not only be entrusted by Graendal with her Compulsion knowledge, but also imparted a significant array of her plans and schemes, so that the pawn could Compel according to her own judgment based on who the intruder was and what Graendal's plans entailed. It would also required Graendal to trust the sacrificial pawn to have correct judgment regarding her actions vis à vis the intruder. Anyone who actually thinks this sounds like something a Forsaken would do understand less than nothing about the Forsaken.
Anyway, here's a few things people seem to ignore.
Graendal didn't flee when someone warped in - she waited until someone came to her door, met her, got Compelled and sent back out. And then, people suggest, she fled. Why? Fleeing from Rand as soon as she felt him Travel to her location would be quite credible, this is what she said she would do multiple times. Fleeing after the visit is downright absurd. What if Rand hadn't sent Ramshalan first? Again, this plan that people like to hypothesise makes no sense - it requires her to leave herself open to far simpler attacks in order to counter the one, single, unexpected attack for no reason beyond fulfilling the desires of people who start off with the conclusion that she could have escaped.
Now, someone might say she had already fled when Ramshalan arrived and the pawn channeler did everything of her own accord. Of course, this makes little sense either. Barring that we have seen little from Graendal that indicates she would be willing to teach her talents to some insignificant sacrificial pawn, barring that we have no indication that such a sacrificial pawn even exists, barring that we have no reason to believe Aran'gar and Delana were ever at Graendal's place, and barring that even if they did, Graendal would still need to have someone else already in place to execute that plan before they came anyway - because if this was such a well-planned counter, then surely she had it prepared the moment Rand hinted at coming to Arad Doman, not when Aran'gar arrived - barring all that, it still doesn't make sense because said sacrificial pawn wouldn't know what orders to Compel into the target if Graendal wasn't there to tell her. And Graendal wouldn't know what orders to give unless she saw the visitor. Which brings us back to the previous point, Graendal had to be there when Ramshalan arrived, therefore, her fleeing makes no sense, because she would have fled after the expected threat came.
In order to avoid this, the sacrificial channeling pawn would have to not only be entrusted by Graendal with her Compulsion knowledge, but also imparted a significant array of her plans and schemes, so that the pawn could Compel according to her own judgment based on who the intruder was and what Graendal's plans entailed. It would also required Graendal to trust the sacrificial pawn to have correct judgment regarding her actions vis à vis the intruder. Anyone who actually thinks this sounds like something a Forsaken would do understand less than nothing about the Forsaken.
honestly all she had to do was have Ramshalan stumble in, get some info out of him, make a few quick conclusions and turn to Delana ... "You, worm, put this weave on him" ... demonstrate the weave for Delana. Then grab Aran'gar and get the hell out of dodge.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
- 13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM
2162 Views
Too convulted to make any sense...
- 13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM
1103 Views
What is the reason Delana is with Graendal?
- 13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM
1181 Views
Indeed...
- 13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM
1090 Views
Re: Indeed...
- 13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM
1147 Views
That is wrong
- 13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM
989 Views
Re: That is wrong
- 13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM
1058 Views
Plus...
- 13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM
898 Views
sorry but no
- 13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM
1112 Views
Exactly
- 13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM
955 Views
It makes perfect sense.
- 13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM
1017 Views
I won't be 100% sure she's dead until we get a solid "she's toast" from either the text
- 13/07/2010 04:21:18 PM
1035 Views
This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM*
- 13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM
667 Views
Until I have absolute proof to the contrary.(Confirmation by Harriot or BS)
- 13/07/2010 04:20:49 PM
937 Views
If Graendal didn't know Rand would use balefire, why would she have Delana do the Compulsion?
- 13/07/2010 04:57:10 PM
1215 Views
Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand.
- 13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM
1110 Views
I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted.
- 13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM
1082 Views
Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them
- 13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM
1002 Views
- 13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM
1002 Views
Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them
- 13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM
1057 Views
- 13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM
1057 Views
What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple.
- 13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM
1063 Views
Huh
- 14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM
1049 Views
Why did the lair explode?
- 14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM
1009 Views
While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail.
- 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM
1188 Views
What did Rand tell Ramshalan...
- 14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM
895 Views
Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan...
- 14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM
988 Views
...
- 14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM
1166 Views
he doesn't have to read Rands mind
- 14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM
934 Views
Provide a quote.
- 15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM
1062 Views
read the chapter
- 10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM
905 Views
Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't.
- 10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM
1029 Views
sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate
- 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM
1119 Views
- 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM
1119 Views
Oh if that's what you want
- 11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM
1033 Views
Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress.
- 11/08/2010 06:57:39 PM
948 Views
Re: Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress.
- 11/08/2010 09:20:10 PM
939 Views
why does it have to be a well thought out plan?
- 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM
915 Views
She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion.
- 14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM
898 Views
No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate
- 14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM
992 Views
Nonsense.
- 14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM
1036 Views
yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance
- 14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM
1038 Views
Which ones?
- 15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM
910 Views
Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted.
- 14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM
916 Views
She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion
- 13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM
923 Views
we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves
- 14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM
1057 Views
I so desperately want you to be right.
- 14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM
1060 Views
Graendal being alive would make more of a statement...
- 14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM
977 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
- 14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM
904 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
- 14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM
996 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
- 10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM
1099 Views
Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM*
- 13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM
358 Views
Honestly, if she's still alive, how is she going to die?
- 16/07/2010 05:49:06 AM
917 Views
Ahh, just remembered that some people think some Forsaken will survive Tarmon Gai'don. Still... *NM*
- 16/07/2010 05:51:41 AM
481 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
- 10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM
888 Views
Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers*
- 10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM
865 Views
Because he was right, that's why.
- 11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM
887 Views
Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers*
- 11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM
852 Views

