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The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM
Kindle won't let me get the Prologue because of where I live so I'll have to wait for the book. Disappointing, but also kind of cool I guess. From what I've read of your different reviews of Graendal I'd like to make the following comments...

It's so awesome that she's alive. She was a major loss to the Shadow as a profoundly clever and evil woman. It seems that her mind moves so quickly that its almost unbelieveable, and she acts on instinct and without hesitation. She realizes that she's about to die, but STILL makes time to quickly snuff out Aran'gar (unless Aran'gar had time to unravel the knot and escape which seems unlikely). I really love this Forsaken. She'll need to get some Healing and without too many BA around that might be a problem, though she'll probably Compel a Yellow.

It was nice to see that she could possess an animal and use its eyes - very nice, almost new thing we're seeing. It's also great that she wants to kill Nynaeve. I'm surprised that Nynaeve's new nemesis might become Graendal - we all expected Semirhage, but she's dead I guess.

What a great twist! It makes the ending so much more exciting having Graendal there. She must have been a really nasty piece of work to try and kill in the War of Power, and she's left Rand responsible for a mass atrocity with no result - though perhaps the death of Aran'gar counts as a small victory.

(Also remember she has an angreal, so we can't judge her strength too easily).

but your point is valid ... but with a weak angreal she is strong enough to shield and bind a male Forsaken an average AS and weave a Gateway all on the fly ... most impressive if you ask me!


Can provide someone with twice as much of the power, or even three times. We see this when Elayne & Aviendha are in a circle using the BotW and Elayne comments about how she gave Aviendha the stronger angreal and she had the weak one, but that she still was able to draw in 2-3 times as much as normal.

So Graendal x 2 is a lot more powerful than a male forsaken. Even if her angreal was VERY weak x 1.5 would still overcome most other forsaken.


I agree that 2x Graendal would be vastly stronger than any Male Forsaken ... but not all posters on here agree with that.

I think even 2x Graendal making 2 shields, air bonds and a Gateway is pretty impressive...
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 9416 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2741 Views
A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 2576 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 2494 Views
Yes, that's the point - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 2326 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 2464 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2588 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1542 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2679 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1450 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1395 Views
I love the borderlanders - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 2524 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1468 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1516 Views
I posted some links here - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 2406 Views
My quick summary - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 3206 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 2249 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2555 Views
Awesome! - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 2329 Views
Regarding Graendal - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2845 Views
Some things... - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 2440 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 2349 Views
a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 2385 Views
Even a weak angreal - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 2323 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 2208 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 2432 Views
Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 2335 Views
Re: Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 2158 Views
Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 2261 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 2485 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 2357 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 2183 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 2276 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 2267 Views
I think so, yes. - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 2214 Views
I don't think so actually - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 2333 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 2238 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 1233 Views
no she wasn't *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1358 Views
nope, no power - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 2166 Views
So here's what happens... - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2670 Views
Thanks. A few comments... - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 2153 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 2125 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 2286 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 2138 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 2169 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 2019 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 2147 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 2166 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 2193 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 2129 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 2113 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 2111 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 2027 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 2127 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 2032 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 2085 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1295 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 1129 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1985 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 2238 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 3037 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1932 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 2024 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 2167 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 2095 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 2023 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 2064 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1955 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 2090 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 2056 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 2208 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 4107 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 2096 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 2101 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 2089 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 2032 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2847 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2820 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 2113 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 2161 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 2077 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 2067 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 2167 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 2148 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 2020 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1283 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1334 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1280 Views
Re: She says... - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 2083 Views
Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 2046 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 2036 Views
Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 2171 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 2037 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 2028 Views
Nope - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1927 Views
Re: Nope - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 2073 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 2182 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 2085 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1963 Views
Well... - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 2145 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 2322 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 2153 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 2278 Views
Oh come on.. be real - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 2018 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 2108 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 2034 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 2050 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1319 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1272 Views
Well, exactly! - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 2088 Views
What I think happened - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 2058 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 2019 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 2139 Views
Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 2127 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 2091 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 2053 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 3137 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3549 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 2043 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 2037 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1977 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 2087 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 2032 Views
LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 2032 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 2136 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1958 Views
I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 2152 Views
Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1993 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 2028 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 2054 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 2004 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 2072 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 2077 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 2187 Views
*NM* - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 1236 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 2315 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 2305 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 2227 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 2086 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 2156 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 2262 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1299 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1433 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 2062 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1278 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 2078 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2696 Views
Yes, but its still a little off - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 2110 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 2289 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 2173 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 2255 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 2202 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 2102 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 2244 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 2308 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 1262 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 2474 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 2101 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 2159 Views
Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 2322 Views
Yes. s/He was. - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 2101 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 2307 Views
- 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 2190 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 2241 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 2172 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2851 Views
I had a similar thought, but... - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 2175 Views
Probably not Sanderson - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 2178 Views
No way - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 2087 Views
I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1297 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 2108 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2656 Views

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