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I don't think so actually darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM
Can you sketch the scene for me. What was Arangar doing? Was she lounging on a sofa, playing with Delana, sipping on some wine?

Was she even aware Graendal was in the room?

I'd appreciate a bit of detail, if you can provide it.



Graendal and Aran'gar were in the same room, and Aran'gar knew that Rand was outside on the hill. Graendal was using a dove to evesdrop on Rand but Aran'gar couldn't see what she saw or hear what she heard. When Graendal saw him turn on the access key she opened a gateway, put shields on them, leapt through it, and saw the white light of balefire before closing it. Aran'gar had enough time to say "Graendal? What are you --"


If she was holding the Power it seems very unlikely that Graendal could have shielded her and done everything else ... even with an Angreal ... but it's one of those same mysteries as Mylen being able to shield Edesina, Teslyn and Joline all at once.

I just assume that Graendal's shield was merely a delaying tactic and that Aran'gar had not siezed saidin (or that Graendal's angreal is stronger than previously assumed, or both).
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8527 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! PatAtt - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2262 Views
A dove, that's weird BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 2011 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1961 Views
Yes, that's the point BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1810 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1932 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM 1163 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2052 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1256 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2130 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1156 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* Yuri - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1143 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM* RandAllThor - 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM 1119 Views
I love the borderlanders PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1997 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1210 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* Guava - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1123 Views
I posted some links here PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1851 Views
My quick summary PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2634 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. DREWRULESWOT! - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1725 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2048 Views
Awesome! Ryan - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1806 Views
Regarding Graendal Sidious - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2303 Views
Some things... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1856 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1818 Views
a very weak angreal darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1812 Views
Even a weak angreal malekithe - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1760 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1643 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM 1814 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream Syraelle - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1882 Views
Probably Slayer RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1768 Views
Re: Probably Slayer Syraelle - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1575 Views
Audio Book Matt_at_Heart - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1708 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... Shannow - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1911 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1823 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1629 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1752 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1733 Views
I think so, yes. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1675 Views
I don't think so actually darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1750 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1695 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 981 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM 1582 Views
no she wasn't *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1088 Views
nope, no power newyorkersedai - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1585 Views
So here's what happens... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2116 Views
Thanks. A few comments... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1596 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1613 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1758 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1614 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1642 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1480 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1578 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1613 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1635 Views
How did she know there was a shield? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1588 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1561 Views
Who said "they"? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1558 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM 1610 Views
I don't think strength is the only determinant... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:24:24 PM 1577 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1516 Views
Provide evidence? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1564 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1493 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1571 Views
Alright, you win *NM* Deadsy - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1027 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 886 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1477 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1706 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2501 Views
So? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1404 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source Mik - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1488 Views
Nice catches! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1614 Views
we don't know that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1552 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1496 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... Mik - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1541 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1435 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1553 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1529 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1661 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3563 Views
Well... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1586 Views
She says... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1590 Views
no one is arguing that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1535 Views
Er... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1487 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2322 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2286 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1558 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1624 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1529 Views
fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1528 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1657 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1611 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1482 Views
That's my point *NM* darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1021 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* Bookwyrm - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1055 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* Marshall - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1032 Views
Re: She says... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1541 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1518 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1497 Views
Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1614 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1481 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1485 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1379 Views
Re: Nope fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1544 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! Mik - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1656 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1539 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1426 Views
Well... Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1598 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1742 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1587 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM 1585 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1707 Views
Oh come on.. be real Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1501 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1582 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? Gee69 - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1533 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM* Myrdhyn - 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM 1136 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1519 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1065 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1020 Views
Well, exactly! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1574 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal Ryan - 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM 1803 Views
What I think happened Sidious - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1525 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Shannow - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1500 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Sidious - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1582 Views
Fair point. Shannow - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1556 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1577 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted malekithe - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1501 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2615 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3042 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1490 Views
she never shielded them darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1502 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1447 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1560 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1502 Views
LMAO... nice! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1520 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1595 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1428 Views
I would agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1580 Views
Re: I would agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1431 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1506 Views
Mostly agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1505 Views
Re: Mostly agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1450 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM 1559 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM 1622 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1508 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1544 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1642 Views
*NM* alanna aes sedai - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 985 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1758 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal. Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM 1631 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM 996 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... The Angry Druid - 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM 1539 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM 1645 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself! darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM 1647 Views
I'm happy there wasn't... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM 1655 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM 1601 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM 1727 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM 1483 Views
True... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:02:59 PM 1480 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1807 Views
For the record Heiko - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1688 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1572 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1618 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM 1142 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump? Marshall - 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM 1704 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM 1584 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? Tom - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1754 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1030 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1086 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1525 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1043 Views
I tend to agree Sidious - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1547 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2163 Views
Yes, but its still a little off Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1598 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1751 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose Sidious - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1666 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? Sidious - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1719 Views
She was really surprised and scared. Rurouni_Kenshin - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1687 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. Tom - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1563 Views
Quite a bit... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1727 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1767 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 1002 Views
Second best prologue ever... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1962 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1594 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1617 Views
Aran'gar is a tool Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1756 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM 1539 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM 1487 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM 1440 Views
Yes. s/He was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1594 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? 4th Dimension - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1764 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead? RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM 1604 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM* Tom - 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM 1041 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM* RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM 1008 Views
Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1671 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Etzel - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1689 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1640 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM 1712 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part Marshall - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2319 Views
I had a similar thought, but... RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1599 Views
Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1640 Views
No way Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1567 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out darius_sedai - 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM 1724 Views
I agree. *NM* Etzel - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1053 Views
A few nits Terez - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1576 Views
Canadian Download site alanna aes sedai - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2073 Views
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